Organizing Tips for Living and Selling with The Organized Mama, Jessica Litman

In today’s episode, I am interviewing Jessica Litman, known as “The Organized Mama” and recognized by People.com as an “organizing and DIY expert”.  Jessica has been encouraging families to embrace their homes by teaching them how to incorporate fun-and-easy home organizational habits that every family member can do. Her work has been featured in Better Homes and Gardens, Parents Magazine, and The Boston Globe. 

You can find Jessica on Instagram @theorganizedmamas or visit her at                   theorganizedmama.com

Tune in to learn:

• Tips for organizing various spaces in your home
• Organizing for functionality v. aesthetics
• How to customize spaces to be child-friendly
• How to organize your home when preparing it to sell 
• Packing tips for your move

If you’re in the process of selling your home or preparing your house to sell, this season of the Behind the Renovation podcast is perfect for you.  Over the next few weeks, I am interviewing industry professionals and related businesses for the Home Selling Success series to help you understand what home selling and buying look like in 2021 and how you can prepare yourself for the good, the bad and that elusive virtue called patience. 

Transcript

Alice: Welcome to the podcast, Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today. 

Jessica: Thank you so much for having me. 

Alice: Absolutely. Well, as you know, we are talking about home selling success and part of that process is dealing with all the stuff that people have in their homes, which is always challenging, whether you're selling or not. Right. And as an organizational expert, I'm sure you deal with this every single day. So I'm excited to tap into your expertise and hear what tips you have for us. Perfect. So for me personally, cause I work with, renovation and design. I always tell my clients if they are calling me for a design project, that before we ever even get to the decorating part, we have to organize their stuff. Because my feeling is I can bring in all the decorative accessories, we can make the room look really pretty and staged. But if we don't address all your stuff and teach you how to organize that stuff, all of it just starts to pile up into the spaces. And then it kind of defeats the purpose of decorating the space in the first place. Right So how do you handle something like that?

Jessica: That is a great question because I think what you have to start with, I do believe organizing and design go hand in hand. Exactly like what you said like you have to start by decluttering or removing unnecessary things in order to showcase the stuff you have. So in order to do that, you really have to start asking yourself, is this item like serving you Is it working in your space Is this something you want to showcase and a lot of times people feel that like, oh, well I had this when I was in my twenties when I was in my apartment when I was, you know when we first got married, but your style changes. And so it's okay to let those things go in order to have a space that actually feels like you now. So to kind of like remove the sentimental piece behind some of your components that you might have, we'll help you just declutter your stuff so that it actually stays decorated the way that you want it to. And you will actually enjoy your space. There is this thing called visual clutter, which I feel like a lot of people don't always cover because when you see so many things, your mind doesn't know where to go. And so with design, you really want to focus on specific things. So when you go into a room and you feel like overwhelmed, it could just be because you have too much stuff. And so by taking those things away, you can feel more at ease with the space that you're actually in. 

Alice: I 100%. Agree. That's always been how I've been my whole life. So even when I worked at a law firm, way back when,  there are some people that just love to look like they're really busy and they have piles of files all over the place, stuff strewn all over their desk. I can't work that way. So everybody knew like don't mess with Alice because I will have everything organized. And I will, my space actually looked like I had nothing to do, but that's the way I function. Because if there's stuff all over the place like you said like there's so much visual clutter. Like I can't focus and I get very anxious and it makes me feel better once I cleaned it all up and it put all the files away and everything's like, nice and neat. Then I'm like, I can handle this.

Alice: So I know, especially over this past year with everyone sheltering in place, right. what are some best practices that you can offer for people in terms of the various rooms that we all live in right because for instance, like our office is probably, has never seen so much use then over the past year? And then if you have children at home and of course the kitchen, that's another space that has been used and abused probably over the last year, more so than ever. Right. So we can do each space, like what are some best practices to kind of keep your sanity when you're living with multiple people all day, every day. 

Jessica: Okay. So there was like a lot in one question. Okay. No, I love it. I love it. So why I want to say the very first thing, no matter where you go or what you do start with your bedroom and the reason being it doesn't matter how disorganized the rest of your house is. Your office is about focus on your bedroom, keep your bedroom clean every single day, because there are so many brain research studies out there that talk about how sleep and clutter actually it disrupts your sleep patterns by having too much clutter in your space. So if you are like, okay, my house is a complete disaster. And you're feeling that anxiety starts in your bedroom. And then in your bedroom, keep countertops clear, put your clothes away. If your closet is a total disaster and you can like close the door, just close the closet doors. You don't see it when you sleep seriously. It's so crazy. But start there. And then as you kind of like go through your house, look at what you have in that space that isn't working. Don't say, oh, this whole room is awful because it might just be your dining room table is where all of the stuff is collected. It's your dining room table. It's not the room. It's that specific location then. Why, why does everything get dumped there. Well, we don't have a spot by our front door and that's the first spot that comes in off the, so maybe we need, you know, some hooks or you don't make something look pretty and functional by the entryway. So things don't pile up on your dining room table. So really asking yourself, why is this happening instead of like, oh, everything is, you know, get really specific and that's.

Alice: While it's happening you can create a solution for that. Right. So, yes I agree.

Jessica: So totally like focus on that. And then when you're living with multiple people, my biggest tip is to organize the space for the least organized person and seriously, cause they're the ones that aren't going to change. So stop expecting them to change. They just, they aren't like to love my husband, but he is not. He says he's organized. And I was like, no, you're not. So like, he likes just dumping his clothes on the floor. So I put out like a decorative laundry basket on his side of the bed. And now all of his clothes magically go in there and they're not all over the floor. So I created something for the least organized person. And you know, when it's laundry time, he has to go through all of why do I do this to myself. And I was like, well, you don't the space. 

Jessica: It's all up to you. Like, this is all on you, not on me, but he's the one that has to deal with it. So it makes it easier to keep like our living or our bedroom clean without like clothes all over the place. Or if you have kids create a spot for all their papers, that's right where their backpack is, or use something to just collect all the shoes. It doesn't always need to like to look beautiful in some of those more functional spaces. It's okay to be more functional for the point of function so that you can enjoy other spaces that you can create a more luxurious and beautiful space. 

Alice: Yes, I agree. Well, and I also think, you know, if you're not organized and especially with children, the sooner you can teach them how to be organized, the more they're going to be organized because you can't just expect someone to be organized and get organized. And they have no idea how to do that. So creating those systems really is very helpful in training them up so that they know what to do. And I've done that with my clients where, you know, if they don't know where the shoes go create a zone like you said, these are the shells. When you're done with your shoes, you put them back, you know, you get them, and then you use them. And then when you come home, that's where you put them back. These are and hang things at their level, right. For kids. Like I always say, if they can reach it, you can't expect a five-year-old to be able to hang their clothes up, in a closet where the rod is at adult height. Right. So I agree. 

Jessica: And things like, you know, hooks and stuff that you can do in the meat like that, you can put it things lower. Cause I've had a lot of clients that have said, like, I don't want something, you know, down low, cause they're going to outgrow it. And I was like, well, there's like removable hooks. You can put it up for like the short time that they need it. And then it's still functional. There are ways that you can keep things organized without going overboard. 

Alice: Well, I think sometimes it's a little shortsighted thinking that, you know, things are one and done. Like you're going to do something once and it's never going to change. Like you're not going to put your child in a nursery and expect them to live in that nursery for the 18 years are living under your roof. Like that doesn't make any sense. Their rooms have to grow up with them. So creating systems that work for them as toddlers and then graduating up to as they age up and as they get taller and whatnot, I mean, that's why preschools have things at child height, like, you know, younger child height. And then you go into elementary school, things are a little bit higher. And then as you get into high school, you don't expect them to use, you know, something that they would use in preschool. It doesn't make any sense. So I think someplace it's a little short-sighted, but if you bring it to their attention, then they'll understand. And it just makes everybody's life better. Unless you plan on doing it for your children 24 7. 

Jessica: Oh my gosh. Yes. A hundred percent with that. Yes. 

Alice: Okay. So now when we are preparing houses to sell, what are some ways to help make that process of organizing a little bit easier, right Because we need to declutter, we need to organize things. You, you can't keep your home in the same condition as you would on a day-to-day basis, how you live in it, because that's not, that's not buyer-friendly. Nobody wants to see me, you know, your laundry all over the place. They don't want to see the toys thrown throughout. So what are some easy ways to kind of keep things organized, but still be functional for you from a, from a living perspective, but be able to show your property well? 

Jessica: So I have two specific tips with that. The first one is to use it as your real opportunity. You are now on a deadline to truly declutter your stuff and like use it for real and really use that as your motivation to declutter the things that you don't want to bring with you to your next house that you don't want to deal with anymore. And by being really ruthless at that process, you will eliminate a lot of unnecessary things that then you won't have to worry about later. And so if you know, you're thinking about putting your house on the market, start now like start decluttering and being like super ruthless. If you combine rebuy something for like $20 and you're like questioning it, it might make more sense just to declutter it now and then not bring it into your new space, see if you actually need it. 

Jessica: And then if you do, it's under $20. And so you can rebuy it and knowing that, okay, I do use this. So this is something I have to keep again. Then the second thing is, to use laundry baskets for everything. when I have clients and we are staging their homes to sell, we use laundry baskets for all their shoes, backpacks, jackets, everything, the kids throw everything into the laundry basket. And then all the parent has to do is throw it in the trunk of the car and higher, my bedroom looks beautiful and all of the stuff is sitting in the trunk of your car.

Jessica: But it also works like when we, we staged our home to sell on two separate occasions and ended up just remodeling. But when we did, I ran through the house, started on the very top floor, went all the way down with the laundry basket. Anything that was on the floor just went into the laundry basket. That laundry basket went into the trunk of my car. We dealt with it later, but I was able to clean up the house in like 10 minutes and out the door for a showing. And it just made things simple because they just picked it up and put it away. And so investing in some stackable laundry baskets will help too. Cause he can stack them in the trunk of your car to get more space. 

Alice: You probably look like you're living out of your car. It's like, wow.

Jessica: I totally did. I know it did. But I'm like, okay. We also went like two doors down to my neighbor's house. So 

Alice: It sure is. I know. And that, and we are just starting from what I understand to get back into open houses. So now people have to start prepaying for that again, for a while there you had to, make appointments. And so you had a little bit more preparation time and then, but so when it comes to packing, let's talk about packing because what you said earlier is very important. You don't want to bring extra stuff to your new space. If you don't have to, that eliminates your, the additional work of having to pack it up. Then you have to unpack any new space and find a home for that again. So if you can get rid of it beforehand, more power to you, that is the best way to go, but let's try and let's talk about packing and how it can make that process more streamlined and efficient and less overwhelming because it can be the very old world. You're talking about an entire house, depending on whatever size it is of multiple people's things. And my favorite subject is, and we can talk about this more in-depth after you answered this question, but moments people love to keep mementos like what you do with that, but okay. I D I digress. Let's, let's, let's get right to the packing part first. Like what are some great ways to streamline that packing process so sits less overwhelming. 

Jessica: I suggest going room by room and starting with your least used rooms. First, a lot of people have a hard time picking up the kitchen before, like it's actually time to pack up the kitchen. So start with rooms. You don't really use storage stuff. Those are great spots to start because most of the time, the stuff in storage is not doesn't need to come with you. so start in the rooms, you use the least pack up everything and we have done it. And again, it depends on how, how, and where you're moving. If you're moving in the same vicinity, you might not need to go as overboard with making the lists and writing what's in each box. If you are making a cross-country move, it might be more beneficial to create like a spreadsheet-like it. I have six boxes for this room. just so you make sure you get all of your stuff, but if it's like same day move, you don't need to be as, on top of it from my experience. 

Jessica: So starting there and then really like using, using your time wisely, don't put everything off and then be like, oh, I'm going to get to the storage room later. And then like you just throw everything in. And then the night, exactly. Like if you're going to wait until the night before, have it be the kitchen and I, because you use the stuff in the kitchen, you don't use the stuff in the storage room. So start there really declutter and write down on the box, like what those things are and where they go. I know people use stickers. I know people color-code things. It depends on if it makes sense for you. Does it make sense for everybody to color code Some people are like moving from, you know, a condo into a house? So it doesn't matter about that kind of space. If you are downsizing, it might make more sense to kind of color code plan out where things are going to go before the move so that the movers actually put the boxes where they're supposed to go. but again, it has to be comfortable for you. If you know, you have a lot of stuff to declutter, don't focus on the color, coding, focus on getting rid of things. So you're only bringing what you need to your house. 

Alice: Well, I do think it's really important to make sure that you label your boxes and then also then somehow make it easy for whoever's moving you, whether it's you yourself or a moving company to know that, okay, these are the kitchen boxes, but them in the kitchen. So you don't just have random boxes all throughout the house. And then you're just trying to scramble at that point. and then, you know, there are always going to be things in our house that we don't use on a regular basis. So even in a kitchen, I do think there are plenty of things that you're not going to use every day. You might need your dishes and your everyday cookware, things like that. But there are those specialty items that, you know, your bread maker, you're, you know, serving waffles while you're planning your move, you know, things like that can be packed up so that you're not waiting until the last minute because that's, I think very overwhelmingly when you open up those cabinets, you're like, oh my goodness, what do I do. Why do I have so much stuff Which is also a great time to start purging?

Jessica: Exactly. And I know a lot of our clients when we start going through things, they don't always go through their clothes like clothes end up just getting put in the wardrobe boxes. But last-minute, decluttering for people that struggle to let go of things actually is more of a motivator. Now I'm not saying like, wait, you know, the night before to pack up your entire house, no. 

Alice: Just throw it all away. I don't want any of it. 

Jessica: Yard sale. We're done. But if you know that about yourself, it might make a lot of sense to do it two days before, because you are now on a time crunch, you know, you have to get rid of things. And so you are going to be more inclined to part with things, but I'd only suggest doing that for one room. That's it max like two days before one room should be it like not the whole house. And I totally agree, labeling the boxes, with the room and some of the bigger items that can be found in that box. just because then it also will give you an idea of, oh, well, maybe this shouldn't go in this room. It could go somewhere else because you know, some of the bigger items that were placed in that box, as well. 

Alice: When you, okay, so that's packing up to move to the house. So when you get to the other side, when you're in your new space, what do you recommend for people to do Like, is there a first room that you should set up Is there certain things that you should do to make it easier once you get to that side Cause then so you did all this great work on your old home so that you can move into your new home. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I gotta do this all over again. 

Jessica: So what I suggest doing is using post-it notes on everything. So you put it on the drawers, on the cabinets, everywhere. What type of item goes where. And we do this a lot in the kitchens whenever we like to set up a kitchen, but we always start our biggest areas that we usually do. Our bedrooms and kitchens are always like the first two areas that we set up. And then we try and get the bathroom set up as well, depending on the time of day, depending on how the move went, and everything. But I set up at least the bedroom and bathroom, you know, you're actually going to get a good night's sleep, even though the rest of your house has a total mess, but using post-it notes to say like bowls and plates or plates, go here, bowls, go here, cups, go here, silverware here with the general idea of the stuff that you have, then anyone can help to put things away because it's all labeled. 

Jessica: So the entire family can help us, not just on one person to put everything away and create like some sort of organizational thing. Also, I do not recommend buying anything until you put your stuff in the drawers and cabinets. even if it's like a silverware holder and you're like, oh, well I know I need it. So I'll just, don't just see how your stuff works in this new space before you purchase anything. we've seen that so often people move into houses and they're like, oh, well, I thought this would work here, but your silverware is like across the kitchen from where your plates are. Like, it doesn't, that doesn't make any sense just because that's where the, you know, either like the packing company or your husband or you, you put it there doesn't mean it has to stay there. So see how the space works before you purchase any products. 

Alice: I totally agree. And I was just going to ask, like, I think a lot of times people feel like they have to get it perfect from the get-go and that's probably the worst time to be worrying about that. Like just get the stuff into the spaces first into the cavity. And it's just so things are kind of put away and then live in your home and then perfect it from there. Right. 

Jessica: Hundred percent. 

Alice: I agree. I mean, I know I'm also guilty of that because I'd like everything to be like nice and neat and organized, but even then, like, it doesn't make sense because you haven't lived there yet. You don't know how you're going to function in, in the space just yet. And it may be the exact place that you're going to keep it, but you can always make things better later. So don't worry about lining everything and making all perfect if you have the time. Great. But then, you know, if you get the stuff out of the boxes and into the units so that you can use it, that's the most important thing to start with. Yes. Okay. So now let's talk about some organizational tools once you are in the home because that's the fun part now. Okay. You've kind of settled in your unpacked ish, cause I'm sure there are people that have stuff that are in boxes still for many weeks and many months later. What are some really, what are some of your favorite organizational tools let's, let's start with, the entry space, right Cause that's usually where people either come in from the home. So either the front door or they're coming in through the garage, which I think more people come through the garage and they do actually the front door. 

Jessica: Yes. For that space, one of my favorite things is using like laundry baskets for kids, shoes, backpacks, and stuff. If you don't have like, built-in cubbies, if you don't have space for hooks, just because it gives everybody like a designated spot for things to go, there are some like really cute wire ones that we love to use from the target. They have like little brass handles and like, they look really cute. 

Alice: But not just the regular, like a white tub.

Jessica: No, I'm talking like the pretty looking ones, you know, you're going to spend a little bit more money, but they look nice and each kid has their own kind of like a spot for them. So if there is no hangers, if there isn't space to do in cubbies. Cause I do think that that is a thing to invest money in. Especially if you have kids or have somebody in the household that is a little bit messier, those built-in cubbies really do act as a huge system to help keep everything kind of tidy and streamlined. 

Alice: Are you thinking about your husband again? 

Jessica: I am. His cubby was like piled with stuff and last night he was like, I'm going to go through all of this. And halfway through was like, okay, I'm done. But it's all in his little space and I don't care. I don't care if that's messy because it's in his designated spot and it is what it is. 

Alice: So like I said, like once a week you can designate, everybody has to go through their heavy, empty it out, put everything away. And I do that with my daughter because she'll pile all her stuff that she's worn. They're not dirty. They're not clean. She doesn't really know what to do with it. I'm like, okay, you need to do something. Cause it can't just be sitting here. Right. So like now the weekend is a great time to do the catch-up work. 

Jessica: Exactly. And like designating a day to like go through and do all of that. I think makes such a difference in keeping everything organized. And you know, we do, we call it the 15 minutes tidy that we do every night of our house. Like we put the pillows back on the couch and we like to fold the blankets and just doing that every day for like 15 minutes, it just makes everything so much easier on the weekends when we do have to like go through the cubbies or, you know, put away laundry or some of those bigger tasks because then we aren't focusing on all the other things that need to be done to like make sure that the house, you know, isn't a disaster. 

Alice: Yeah. And I think that's, what's interesting is people seem to think that organizing or cleaning up is like this big, huge task. And it can be just a lot of little time chunks where, like you said, 15 minutes, you're you could, you wouldn't be amazed what you can accomplish in 15 minutes. Like you, you set a timer and you run around. You're like, wow, I still have time. Like you're, you're trying to find stuff to do. And it's kind of a fun game, especially with little kids. And you're like, okay, we've got 15 minutes, like hustle, do whatever you can. And you've got a much more tidy space. So that makes it fun for everybody. let's go back to talking about momentum because I think this is one struggle that everybody has about what to do with these things. As you, as a parent of younger children, I think, right. You probably have the influx schools ending or for us, it already ended like you get this influx of all the projects that they did throughout the year. You're like, yay. Now, what do I do let's talk about those things first and then we'll talk about other stuff. 

Jessica: So okay. With kids stuff, think about, so I tell my clients a couple of things, the first thing I say is, okay, let's look at, you know, you and all of your momentos from childhood, do you look at those All of them are like, no, I've thrown them in the garbage or, oh, they're sitting in a box and my parents and I was like, okay, do you want to hold onto those for your kids Because that's exactly what your parents are doing for you. It just changes the outlook of that whole thing. It means something to you. You're the one that's holding onto them. It's it means something to you. So if it means something to you, my philosophy is you either display it, you use it or you get rid of it. So if you can't display it, you aren't using it. Then why are you holding onto it.

Jessica: If that's the case, you know, you want to display it, but you don't know how to start. There are so many ways that you can do this. Like my biggest one and what I do is I turn a lot of things into books. like we take a picture now I'm not saying get rid of everything. But because whenever I say this, a lot of people are like, how can you get rid of the first baby clothes that they like And I'm like, there, there is some component of, you know, keeping things. But the majority of the staff, if you can turn it into a book, a scrapbook, they have so many apps out there to make books. And then you can see, like, we have a ton of them over, like on my shelf, in my living room that by kids look at like about once a week, it's their artwork, it's baby stuff. 

Jessica: I keep it out so that they will look at it. And then it's being used and viewed. If it's something that you have to physically hold on to, to appreciate like the baby clothes, or maybe there's a handprint or something like that, holding onto that in like a memory box is completely fine. But again, ask yourself, do I need to physically like touch this in order to appreciate it Most of the time, the answer is no, you don't. Obviously, there are some things that you do. So you just have to kind of remove the sentimental piece because it's only sentimental to you, my spouse, most of the stuff he's like, why are you saving this and I was like, well, I like it. And then my kids are at an age they're in first and second grade. So they're at an age where I'm okay being like, do you want to keep this from kindergarten or preschool Do you want to keep this from something And if they're like, I don't know, we'll still hold on to it. But if they're like, no, I don't need it. Then we can part with it. And that's okay because this box is for them. It's not for me. 

Alice: So I did that with my daughter. A couple of years ago, we went through a whole stack of stuff and I wish I was a little more diligent about doing it on an annual basis, which is I would highly recommend people do this when you can remember when things were versus trying to figure out, oh my God, what year was this.

Jessica: The school year. Just do it. 

Alice: Absolutely. Yes. So we went through it together and said, okay, let's pick one or two items from that year that you want to keep. And then I took pictures of everything. Like you said, with the intention of creating those books, which never actually happened. It's on my digital file. but those books are awesome because yes, you can use them as, like a, it's a Momento, but you're not carrying, you know, a whole stack of art that they did in first grade, second grade, third grade, like you could see it like, oh look what a great artist you are first grade. 

Alice: But yes, we kept only like one or two items. And I do have, I don't have a lot from my childhood, but I do have a journal from junior high, which is really interesting to see my writing, like our, we had a, English assignment where there was a prompt every day that we had to write something about it. So I find that, that kind of interesting what my, my thoughts were at that time. I have like one or two projects from way back when, but really most of that stuff, even a yearbook. What do you do with those things And when I was growing up, we got one yearbook at the end of junior high. And, and your books in high school with my daughter, they had a yearbook every year from kindergarten on what do you do with a yearbook after a while.

Jessica: Throw it out. 

Alice: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that answer. Okay. Another thing trophies, you know, people have trophies and plaques from all the sports that they've done since birth. 

Jessica: You're talking about my husband, aren't you.

Alice: He seems to be.

Jessica: You don't love this and we'll be like, oh, you don't have to listen to this. We're talking about you. So a lot of the trophies he's kept big trophies, like for big wins that he wants to celebrate and keep the rest of the trophies. There are actually organizations that will, you can donate the trophies too, and they will use them for different events. there are some for like inner-city kids that, you know, cause the trophies do cost money. And so yeah, check out the local. If you just look like trophy donation companies on Google, you can find some that will actually take the trophies. And so there are so many companies out there that will take donations of kind of random things and use them for really good purposes. 

Alice: I love that so much. Okay. Yes. Because, well, my daughter was a contempt competitive gym for years a year. So we have all the, all the like can't even think of it, but she has all the ribbons with all the, all the awards and we have them hung on her wall. So that's fun. But now she's retired from gymnastics and she's doing other stuff. So I'm like, good Lord. What am I Don't stiff me with all that stuff when you leave the house. Why not What's interesting. okay. Well, I think that when it comes to living in our houses, I think people really have to understand that beyond like the pretty stuff organization is just so key to like your everyday wellness, right Because when you go into a space, having I'm big on being able to find things because I'm already strapped for time. 

Alice: I don't want to have to look for things and I'll tell you right now, I'm so irritated because I cannot find my iPad pen. And I do not know what happened to it. I'm like Scott, where could it possibly, it's gotta be here somewhere. I don't know where, but I will find it, but that's one of those things that I like like if I need a document, I need to know exactly where to go get it. I don't want to hunt for it. I don't want to dig for it. what are some major things that you could recommend that people do So just maybe one big thing that someone can do to make their everyday lifestyle that much easier beyond like the most obvious of, you know, putting your shoes?

Jessica: Honestly, I say, making your bed. I know that sounds so like weird, but when you make your bed every night, you go into a space that is tidy because your bed is made. And so you're ending your day. And then if you start your day with a bed that's made, you're just kind of like capping out by keeping yourself organized and giving yourself that, that space to sleep so that you can make more decisions. And I do find that that helps immensely in the whole organizing process. Also don't get so hung up on what you see on social media in terms of organization, because remember, you're probably only seeing one to two walls of that space. You're not seeing all four. So know that whatever's behind the photographer could be a big old hot mess and your space doesn't need to look like that in order to be considered organized. 

Alice: I agree. I mean, it's great aspiration and I think everybody should try and keep their spaces as organized as possible for you and know that it's a perfect 24 7, but you can give yourself those times on the weekends or, you know, 15 minutes a day where you can pick things back up and get back to square one where you're like, okay, I'm good. Again. I feel like I have to do that multiple times a day. And when I'm distracted and I can't get my thoughts together, I vacuum because that is it's comforting to me. I'm weird. Like that, like that makes me feel good. 

Jessica: The, the vacuuming, the cleaning it, the organ like straightening up, like totally helps just, it helps your brain to just kind of like recenter refocus. 

Alice: Yes. It works for me. It's always worked for me. And so it's my, it's my go-to when I feel like, okay, I'm all over the place. I can't, I'm not going to get anything done. So let me go clean something. So what is one of the craziest things that's happened to you this past year that you can share with us Because I just think it's a, it's a fun question to ask? It's been a crazy year for everyone in general, but what's one of the craziest things that has happened to you, this past year. 

Jessica: Well with COVID and going into people's houses that has completely shifted my entire business where I've had to do everything online. And that has been very crazy. 

Alice: I can imagine. Now, do you find it challenging working with people virtually versus in-person because obviously in-person, you're able to touch things, see things that you see things from a different perspective than, you know, through a lens or through a screen? 

Jessica: It has, it has been an interesting road. And what I've found is we've created a new kind of like flow for helping people kind of like first get started, which we weren't doing before, because we were just coming in and like organizing. But I'm very happy with finding out like, okay, first we're going to first, you have to do this before we even do, you know, our little face time. And by them taking the time to remove a lot of excess clutter that we would typically spend doing, like our first organizing session, it's really helped streamline the entire process. 

Alice: Hmm. Awesome. So actually, so pre COVID you just went in and you just did it for them versus now you're really teaching how to do it for themselves, right. Because you're not the hands-on person. Exactly. You know, I think that might be even more effective. Right. 

Jessica: I was going to say, that's why it was so crazy because it wasn't something I was expecting. But now that we've been doing it and seeing really great results, it's something that I'm like, actually this could be fairly substantial because we aren't having to go do resets once a month for clients or I'm hearing people, you know, a lot of times we have some clients that we just need to remind, you need to keep up with this after we leave like we don't live in your house. So, and by teaching people in a more streamlined manner, it has been far more efficient than, you know, anybody could just come into your house and organize, but if you aren't going to maintain it, then you know, it's not going to work. So like putting it all on you, you're the one that is may use, edit up. Yep, exactly. Are more ownership than what we were doing before. 

Alice: I do think that, well, it's just like when they say, if you put pen to paper and you write things, you're physically doing it, it looks with you, but you know, if you and I, I see this with my clients as well, when I just go in and I just do it, I don't have to explain to them how it's done. I just, you know, with a wave of a magic wand, everything was put away and everything was organized, but then they leave and I'm like, oh no, what happened But it makes me happy when I come back and they actually keep it the same. But I do think what you're doing now is far more effective than just doing it for them. So now then this opens up the opportunity for you to work with people everywhere, not just with your clients, local. Exactly. 

Jessica: There's been a lot of fun. I've had people from, coast to coast, Canada, somebody in Hawaii, and I'm trying to figure out a girl in Germany is also, but times that's the one thing with the time and the kids home. So hopefully once things start to, you know, open up and we can start to see some sort of normalcy, I plan to keep this, and then my hours can be a little more flexible. 

Alice: How fun well that, I think that's a positive result of their pandemic for you. That's great. And you're located in the Chicago area, correct.

Jessica: Correct. Correct. 

Alice: And are things opening up in your area 

Jessica: They are starting to, which is it's weird. It's, you know, we've been in this crazy lockdown. I know you are in California and you've been, we've kind of been on similar paths with things being, you know, so closed and that kind of thing. But with things opening up, it's, it's interesting. Cause I'm like, I don't know. It's been like a year, is this, this is weird. Yeah. 

Alice: I feel like some people don't know what to do with themselves. Like how do we, how do we do this? You don't know how to navigate the real world. 

Jessica: Yes. That is honestly how I feel. 

Alice: We were at a restaurant over the weekend and we felt like they, they were so used to doing takeout that they didn't know how to operate their business, working with like live customers anymore, like pay, because there was so much confusion about how to place the order because they were trying to do things with a QR code and that wasn't really working. And then the customers are getting a little frustrated. It's like, you can a human being, just take my order and put it in and bring the food to me. So yeah, it's going to be a little bit of, a new adapting to a new lifestyle. Like again, even though it sounds so silly like we've been doing this for so long, it was only a year, but it's amazing how much you like forget to do in, in such a short period of time. 

Jessica: But it goes to show that any habit that you set, it doesn't take that long to set in what is normal. So if you want to be organized, no, you can make it happen because within a year we've all, you know, we are where we are.

Alice: Go to bed. Well, here we go. Thank you so much, Jessica, for our, for sharing all this great information with us, where can people find you online. 

Jessica: You can find me on my website is theorganizedmama.com or on all social media platforms. It's organizedmamas with an S. 

Alice: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you. And hey, we got through this interview and my gardeners did not interrupt. Woo. Small wins. All right. Well, you have a great day. Thank you so much.

Jessica: Thank you so much, you too.