Moving Tips and Advice | Interview with Co-Founder of a Professional Moving Company Laura McHolm

In today’s episode, I interview Laura McHolm, co-founder of NorthStar Moving Company in Los Angeles. NorthStar Moving is the fastest-growing privately held company and is the go-to mover for A-List celebrities, The Getty, and other movers and shakers.  They have been featured in Elle Décor, The Hollywood Reporter, The Robb Report, Fortune Magazine, and more. She has single-handedly crushed the dim view consumers once held about the moving industry. Laura coined the phrase “eco-luxury moving services” and is changing the way we move by selling the red carpet treatment. Honored with more awards for service than any other moving company, Laura has broken the long-held notion of moving and storage as burly men doing one job – lifting heavy things.

Tune in to learn  

• innovative moving and packing tips 
• how to minimize the stress of packing 
• high-end moving concierge services you didn’t know you needed, and so much more.

If you’re in the process of selling your home or preparing your house to sell, this season of the Behind the Renovation podcast is perfect for you.  Over the next few weeks, I am interviewing industry professionals and related businesses for the Home Selling Success series to help you understand what home selling and buying look like in 2021 and how you can prepare yourself for the good, the bad and that elusive virtue called patience. 

Transcript

Alice: Welcome to the podcast, Laura, thank you so much for spending some time with me. 

Laura: Thanks, Alice. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. It's such an honor. 

Alice: Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Well, first you have to tell me a little bit about your background because when I was reading your bio, I was like, oh my gosh, we have a very similar path. So I'd like to think that a little bit more so please bit. 

Laura: Well, let's see, I'll go back pretty far. I started Versiti at 16 and I went through UC Berkeley and I got my undergraduate degree there in cognitive neurological psychology. And I worked at Lawrence Hall science teaching, computer programming, and mathematics. During my last year, I was doing a senior project and, I went up there and they said, Hey, we like you, you know, I needed some students to talk about gender bias and mathematics. And so I went there because they had great math programs for girls and boys. And, so anyway, I started working there and from there I was recruited by Atari and I worked at Atari in its infancy, in the computer programming division. So I was like a person, hired in marketing for Atari and the Atari attorneys, which is hard to say encourage them in school. And so I did, and I went to law school and, while I was there, they recommended that I go to Oxford England, and study computer law, which was a new field at the time. 

Laura: So I did that. And, I came back and I worked for Intel and their legal department passed. The bar did all that good stuff and worked for inventors, intellectual property, protecting their rights. And I had worked for fortune 500 companies for most of my life, and I really wanted to do something entrepreneurial and my own and something unexpected given my background and given my gender or given, you know, just everything, just, I wanted to do something different. And, I really loved service businesses. And I thought that the service business was lacking the most at that time. And I still think it is, with, with exception of my company, of course.

Laura: Was moving, because moving is when people are at their most stressed, right. You know, something major has happened in their life. People just don't decide, oh, I'm gonna move. If you're moving, you've either lost a job, gained a job, need a bigger house, need a smaller house, have a sick relative who need to be closer to them, need to move mom. And with you, you know, kids are going away to school. What, you know, getting a divorce. So there's some other big something going on in your life when you move. And that's when people really need to be taken care of the most, right Yeah, absolutely. Probably looking at it like that. It was a very male-dominated industry and how they looked at it. It was, you know, men transactional. Yeah. Picking up boxes and moving them from point a to point, which that is moving also is moving, is making sure that your kids, you know, still get to soccer practice on time. 

Laura: And that maybe you have an organizer come in and help you sort through the 50,000 spoons that you have, that you don't need a couple of their lads that don't match up. And, you know, and, and so you need that and you need the sanctuary artists to come in and, and, you know, do your house and you need the goats to come and clear your backyards and you need, so you need a lot more stuff than just guys moving your boxes. So we have a lot of luxury packages that enable our clients to, you know, have, a picnic dinner the night of their move in their house, or have a gourmet chef come in or have, Oprah Winfrey's dog trainer come in and train their dog or whatever they want to have, or if they want to that we can just have our guys come, you know.

Alice: And there's so much that you just said there, I'm like, oh my gosh, my brain is like, 

Laura: It's really about, taking care of the full gestalt of what a move is, right like it's not just, you know, we all know, you know, we all hate moving, you know, the people say, well, I love to, you're crazy. It's like, I hate to move. 

Alice: I don't like packing to go on a trip that I really want to go on.

Laura: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Oh yeah. That's another story. 

Alice: Oh yeah. Totally. Another story. I mean.

Laura: I actually write articles about that too. That is, my nephew is like taking pictures of me. So we're going to send these in and see you so that you practice what you preach. Right. 

Alice: That's the true test of whether or not you're really in this, the reason I said that was, I also had experience working in, I was a legal assistant with IP firms here in the Silicon Valley, back in the day pre all of this that I'm doing now. so I, when I was reading, I'm like we were in similar industries and look now we're in parallel industries now. So very, very interesting to me.

Laura: What law firm were you with? 

Alice: I was with Blakely, Sokoloff Taylor, and Zafin admins. and then I did staffing and recruiting for all the big firms here in Silicon Valley. You know, so I remember, so I love that you worked for Atari because you know, some people may not even know that that existed as a company anymore. Right. So like all these old school names that you're dropping, I'm like, oh, I love it. I love it so much. Let's break up a little bit because your bio is a whole, we've got to unpack all of that. Literally. How did you get from doing all the tech to starting a moving company of all things like it's just so it made me random and maybe not, but you said you were very interested in service and this was an underserved field. So industry, how did that come about?

Laura: Well, you know, when we took a look, I took a look and there was just nobody really doing what I thought needed to be done there. You know, I love staying in really nice hotels, like the Ritz Carlton and you know, the fourth season. And I liked that kind of service. And I feel like, people are expecting that kind of service in a restaurant they're kind of service everywhere. Then why shouldn't they be expecting that kind of service on this really stressful day or days of their lives Like why not really pamper people right then And, you know, and I, so we just, you know, my part, I, my partner, he decided that you know, he, he, he had a logistical background and a moving background and I was like, you know, this is a perfect match because I don't have that. But what I've got is marketing and legal and, you know, kind of out of the box, crazy thinking. 

Laura: And, and so we, we started, 26 years ago now, and we are the largest independent moving com company for sure. In, in California, I'm probably in the country. And we moved from doing one move, you know, too, we do about between eight and 10,000 moves a year. Wow. you know, we have over 200 guys who worked for us and, now we have offices, and Chatsworth, which is our main headquarters in the valley. And we have Montel in Los Angeles. And then we have, in the bay area, we have, have a franchise up there. We have an office in San Francisco. We are, we just opened an Austin and then Santa Fe. So, we're expanding and you know, we're happy. We're really happy. 

Alice: Yeah. Are you expanding to areas where you're noticing more people are migrating tourists, they're moving in that direction, is that why you chose those locations?

Laura: And that, but there are other places that people are also moving to, but we really are so concerned and brand-focused that, you know, we, we get approached a lot by people that want to, you know, franchise with us. And we turned down, I mean, we turned down more than we say yes to just, we want to make sure that people are doing it our way and people get the kind of customer service and the client experience that we expect and know people expect from our name at this point. Right. Yeah. We'd rather do it slower. we have people that come out from franchise thing, you know, organizations like let's get your 500 units in two years. We're like, no, you know, we don't, we're not frozen yogurt. We don't want to do it. Yeah. We really want to make sure, you know, service is something that you have to really be hands-on because you could go south really quick. Right. 

Alice: Yeah. Yeah. So what, what kind of moving trends are you noticing across the country especially over this past year, year, and a half, a lot of movement has been happening.

Laura: Oh yeah. Absolutely. First of all, what we noticed was there was no downtime. Like it used to, our business was a seasonal business, and people used to move during the summer when school was out. Right. Still. I mean, we're, we're seeing a big uptick right now. But, it didn't slow down in the winter because people are working from home. It's, we're being school from home. So, you know what, you could still keep your kids in the school and virtually have them going to school and move. You don't have to wait for June or, you know, or may, or whatever school is out for you. So the seasonality of it is, is changing. I think that may be just a trend for the COVID lockdown. Right. But I do. But the other trends that we're saying are, that people are moving further away from where they work, because they are getting the commitment from work that yes, Hey, Bert, you know, working virtually actually worked out really well for you. So go ahead, live in Montana or live in Chicago or live whatever. And you could keep your job in LA or wherever. Right. So we're seeing that. And we're also seeing people deciding, you know, what, I spent a year and a half in lockdown. And I was really far from all my family and my friends and it totally sucked. And I was close to where my family is. Wow. They're moving back home and then there are other people who are like, I don't ever want to see my family again. 

Laura: It's every circumstance. And I think that what happened is during COVID, which, I mean, I'm not the only one who thinks this about chroma is, you know, it was an incubator, you know, we all got compressed, you know, and boiled and saturated. And we used to think we're good, you know And now maybe we love and the things that we tolerated and disliked, you know, now we're sick of them. And we're also maybe sick of our own homes here. And we want to change of scenery. Turns out I really don't need a dining room, but I really need two more bedrooms so I can have an office or I don't need, you know, that kind of thing. 

Alice: Sure. Were there more states that you saw people moving away from and to, than others?

Laura: We can move you anywhere in the world. As long as the move starts from somewhere, we are already are right. Don't speak too much to like what's happening for Chicago. I mean, I can speak from reading it, but not from experiencing it more for people moving from Chicago. LA, I don't know that so much as I know Chicago to LA cause we'll do the unload for them, but I don't know, what I can speak to is what's happening in LA and San Francisco and Arizona. Okay. So what's, what's happening. There is, a lot of people are moving to Idaho. A lot of people are moving to Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. A lot of people are moving to Texas. A lot of California, money's going to Texas, Oregon, not as much as it used to be there for a while. A lot of people were moving to Portland and, and up towards Washington, that's calmed down a little bit. but you know, a little bit, but I mean, there are still some people moving there, but it's not like it there for a while. It was like California money went straight to Portland. Right. And, now I think because Portland housing prices have gone up too. people are now going to Idaho. 

Alice: I've been hearing that a lot lately. I'm like really Idaho of all places. I would never think that, but it seems to be a popular destination now. 

Laura: Right. I don't know how people are going to feel after they have the weather, you know, we'll see. Right. I love living in New York except for the summertime. You know, winter was fine with me, but for, I don't, I mean.

Alice: Well, I'm originally from New York. I remember as a kid, like not being able to sleep because it's so stinking hot and people just stay up and they already on the street on the sidewalk, literally you can't sleep. So what else are you going to do Let's talk about the actual movie, because like you said, it's very intimidating. It's overwhelming. There's a lot to consider. And I think sometimes people don't realize the magnitude of the amount of stuff they own in their homes. And it doesn't matter if you've lived there for a year or 20 or 40 years, there's just a lot of accumulation of things in their home. What advice would you have for folks to kind of ease themselves sometimes, you know, this is going to happen and you have some prep time, like months in advance. Sometimes it's kind of like spur of the moment. Oh my gosh. You know, we, we saw a house we want to move and you know, we have two weeks, walk us through kind of what your recommendations would be to prep for this move. And then how we can also then partner with someone like a north star to make that transition a lot less stressful. 

Laura: First of all right now, because it is booming, every moving company that you talk to on every business that you talked to, you know, we're hiring, we're hiring people. We do not have enough mowers. We were turning away, you know, and it, which nothing makes us like, oh, you know, it's like, you know, we'd love to, you know, even a repeat client. Sometimes they're calling in at the last minute and we're just like, we're booked, you know, and we can't do that. And so I would say absolutely book in advance. 

Alice: How far in advance are we talking right now realistically?

Laura: A couple of months. I mean, I would say book far in advance. I mean, you may get lucky. I'm not saying don't call a mover. If you haven't booked two months in advance, but in the perfect world, I would two months in advance book your mover. And before you book your mover, though, you should do some research and the research on how to choose a good mover is this, you should always be, you should all, actually, I think it's true with any service provider, but particularly with movers, you should cheat on based on their reputation, not by their price and people, people think, well, wait a minute, you know, my budget matters. Well, yeah. If your budget matters to you, then that mover's reputation matters to you because when they tell you what it's going to cost, and I get a five-star rating, it actually means it costs that much. 

Laura: Right. But if somebody shows you low balls, and tells you a price, a much lower price, maybe at the end of the movie, it doesn't cost you that much. So I would check the reputation with, with really vetted sites, like the better business bureau, Yelp, Google reviews, but you know, the big ones I would ask for letters of recommendation, I would check to make sure they were licensed and insured. I would check to make sure that the license and information that they give you on the paperwork matches what's on their website, that they're out, you're actually dealing with a legitimate company. I would do all those things. And so you do your little homework. We have tools on our website for that and a cute little video that teaches you how to do that. And look for awards. You know, I, we say if they haven't won any awards for service, chances are they aren't going to win any free me either. Right 

Laura: Got awards for service, make sure that they're active in the community that they give back. if that means that they're dedicated, they're not going to like fold up and turn over and look how long they've been in business. Unfortunately, a lot of companies get a bad reputation, and then they just shut down, reopen it under another name and open up a goal. So if you see, you know, a short period of time, that's could be a red flag. So, I would look for the length of being in service and I also, what kind of tools do they have to help you Right One of the things that we do, and we were really glad we were doing it because it turned out to be like, w we used to have to really try to persuade people. This was a great thing. 

Laura: And now, since COVID everybody gets, it is virtual estimates. You know, we've been doing virtual estimates for years now. And people are like, well, I don't know if I want a virtual estimate. And now people are like, oh yeah, I definitely want a virtual estimate. So we can give you the exact price, the total price of your move by you walking away, virtually not having somebody in your home, right. Showing everything, you make an appointment with us, we give you that. And then you get a price and then that, then you can rest assured that's what you're going to get. Then, the other thing to look for is if they're green or not, we're environmentally friendly. We have, you know, we, we do, we have bio-diesel in our trucks. We recycle, we have even our bubble wrap. It's not bubble wrap. That's a trading name. It's where we have an equal bubble, which is not a patrol petrol product. You can pop away. Guilt-free, we have boxes. Everything is recyclable. We'll make sure it's a green company, too. If that's important to you, which is important to me.

Alice: I've been noticing that a lot of companies are moving towards reusable resources, right Like not having one and done cardboard boxes there, they're actually being able to reuse it from job to job. And, so that, that helps from an eco-friendly perspective, for sure. 

Laura: The cardboard boxes are really are an okay idea if they are like, they should, you should look for marks that say that they're from the forest that they're approved by the forest industry, that they are made out of recycled materials, which are, and that the company actually encourages you to recycle them back. sometimes you can actually sell your boxes back at the end of the move to a moving company. So you get a little bit of break that way. And sometimes you can ask to use boxes and so that you can, you know, get a better deal 

Alice: When people are packing, what is a good strategy for them to approach that task?

Laura: Over two months in advance, right And then you start doing all your lists of who you need to notify, and then you start packing. what are the things that if you really have the time, make four piles, one pile is that you're going to keep it and move it? One file is you're going to give it away. One pile is there's really no one you can give it to, and you need to figure out how to recycle it somehow. Right And the last one is, let's say, recycle, reuse it. And then also, if you're, if you're going to gift it to somebody, like, are you going to, you know, this is going to my girlfriend, it's actually her cup, actually, that should have been back at her house, those files. But if you go through every single, like pick a room, or I call it a weekend warrior project where you have to pick a closet and that, that weekend you're just going through and sorting that out. 

Laura: And what you can find is while you're deciding the stuff you're keeping, you could be packing that up. And just putting aside the very few things that you need to get you through to when you actually think you're going to be opening that box again. So maybe, you know, you're going to be in your new house three months from now. You know what I don't need any of my winter stuff. Sure. You know, are, are, I'm not going to need my work clothes because I'm going to be working from home or I'm not going to a wedding. So I don't need any of that stuff. Right. So you can, you can put that stuff away and really pack it up already as you're going through. And if you do that before you put your house on the market really helps to stage because then you look like you've got all these crazy absolutely 

Alice: You're ahead of the game. At that point, really COVID vintages anything. It taught us that we didn't need as much as we thought we needed. Honestly, if you think about it, even like, I think people are having a challenge getting back into work, wearing real clothes, like what our clothes we're wearing loungewear every single day. So, I mean, I'm not saying that that's the way to live going forward, but there is very little that we really need, especially for a short period of time, you can live without all those extra luxuries if you had to. Right. And it just helps you kind of start planning for that move. That is, if you're if you're waiting till the last to do everything, that's even more overwhelming. So the more you can prepare in advance and you start putting that stuff away, the easier it's going to be for you in the long run. 

Laura: Absolutely. And then just make sure that the, for this stuff that you really do need, make sure that you have like your prescriptions and your kid's favorite Teddy bear and all the stuff that you really have to get by. Like, you don't pack those in regular boxes. Maybe pack those in your suitcases. Maybe don't have the movers move. Those, maybe those are things that you put in your car. So you know exactly where that stuff is because that's the stuff that you need for the next three nights. Right. And how you sorted through the boxes and, and found something. Cause you really don't want to be like two o'clock in the morning and junior wakes up and they need, you know, the dog, the stuffed dog. 

Alice: Yeah. Or they won't go to sleep because they don't have their  Lovie. And yeah, you don't want to be unpacking boxes searching. So when you, so let's talk about the, from the home that you're moving from. So if you pack up a lot of these things in advance, what are the services that are available,  does your moving company come in, do you move some of that stuff offsite in the meantime or are they usually just come on the day of, how does that usually work?

Laura: It's really up to w we're bespoke it's whatever the client wants. We will do whatever ever you want. if you want us to come and move it into storage, we have storage facilities to do that. Or we can move it into public. We, our storage is actually more environmentally friendly because it's, it's warehouse storage and wooden evolves and it's stacked up. It's not rows of grass. Okay. But however you want to store it, we can store it. You can decide, no, I just want to have it in my house and packed in a box. Great. That's fine too. So it's whatever, whatever the client wants. 

Alice: Yeah. Cause I'm just thinking from a preparation standpoint for preparing your house to sell a lot of times it has to happen in phases. Right So if you're, removing a lot of your personal items, you need to pack that up, but then you don't want a garage full of boxes and a garage full of furniture. So you need to move that off-site until it's time for you to move into your new home because you don't have access to that new property until much later on. Right. And so perfect way to use storage. Okay, fantastic. So now what is a good method for people to, utilize for marking their boxes, making that move from your existing home, all of your stuff here to the new home so that the movers know exactly what needs to be done on the other end so that it's efficient and smooth. 

Laura: Okay. So there are lots of different tips for that. One of the things to do is, dab a sheet of paper that as you put something in the box, you write it down on a piece of paper, right And then you can take that piece of paper and you do a photocopy of it and you stick one inside the box and you stick one on the outside of the box. And then you actually keep the other one in your little folder and you label the name of the box. Let's say that's kitchen box four, right So kitchen box four in your folders, kitchen box for, and you can just look down the list and you can see it. A lot of people don't want to take the time to write every single item down. The cheater method is to take pictures of what's is you put everything out that you think is going to go on that box and you do a group shot on your camera. And you say what with a little label that says what box number it is, right. So then on your camera, on your phone, you've got four kitchens with a little card in front of the staff. That's going to go on that box and you wrap it all really well. And then you put it and then, you know, what's in there by just looking at the picture instead of inventorying it like that. 

Alice: I've never heard that approach before. That's really smart. 

Laura: It's, you know, you kind of have to have a good idea of how the first couple of times you do it, you're going to screw up because you're going to think too many fits in the box or not enough. So you're going to have, you know, like this group and then this group and this group and this group minus this thing, but you know, eventually you're going to get a better idea of how much stuff actually goes in a box. So that's one way. Yeah. So that's to keep the contents of the boxes straight and then you, of course, label, label, label, label, label, label, label, the outside of the boxes, but the room that you want it to go into. The other thing, when you get into your new home, you should take a measuring tape and you should measure every room and you should lay and you should measure all of your furniture at home. 

Laura: And you can make a little paper doll set and make sure that like, the sofa really fits on that wall over there, that you thought you were going to put it on. And you, you know, you make it to scale right. With wrapping paper and you can make your little move, your little doll furniture around so that you can rearrange your room. And once you've got your room, the way you want it, you can take a picture of it on your little layout of your room, right there on the doors, and click, and then that's your layout for your room. And then you can take that picture, print that picture out, and tape it to the door of that room. So the movers know, this is how the furniture should be set up in this room. Oh, so the stuff that goes on that wall, the chair goes, and then wait, and then you don't want sometimes to get in there, it still looks like crap. That's not the way you wanted it. So then you just ask the movers to move it around a little bit in bed. But at least you, you least, you know, it fits like you don't have to move the piano up. The two stories to find it. 

Laura: You're not making any friends as big as I thought it was. 

Alice: That's really interesting. I've never thought of it that way from, I mean, I obviously I've done it as a staging company, but I've never considered when you're actually moving, to even layout the floor plans. Cause I figured you get the stuff in there. You'll figure it out. You'll kind of move things around and decide at that point. But doing that in advance could be very efficient. 

Laura: It really fast. And also what you do then too, is on your furniture. Like what you might find out is, you know, the sofa that's now in the living room is actually going to go on the family room. And then, so you just make sure that when you're, when the movers are there, you've got a piece of paper on the sofa that says, this sofa will go to in the name of the room, right Then you label all the rooms at your new house with the same name, as you call it bad girls bedroom, one teenage bedroom, two, whatever. And then you just keep that nomenclature consistent, right So that you've labeled everything in your house that matches the nomenclature. That's all my debts. 

Alice: I love it. I'm going to have to implement this going forward. I hope not to do a ton of those, but I mean, not even just for me personally, just working with my clients sometimes or moving from one location to another, I just had a client move last week, actually. And they were overwhelmed. It's it's challenging. You know, if you're two parents working, full-time kids are still in school, everything is still happening in the home. Nobody's going into an office. The kids are not actually on campus yet because that'll start happening again this fall. But right now people are kind of, doing, a juggling game still. And they were moving an hour away. They did hire a moving company, but it was the company ended up having to pack them because they were not ready on the day of so, and I think people need to get a little more realistic about how much time they really have to devote to such an activity. And it's okay to hire out people to help you with that because it just makes things simpler, less stressful. And then you can actually enjoy that new adventure that you're going on. Right. Which is your new home. 

Laura: I couldn't say it better myself. I totally agree. Yes, absolutely. I have one more trick for packing that I, we were talking about your, what you can do too, is let's say you really liked the way your bookshelves. Look, I like the way you've, you know, you've arranged all the trash goes on your table or whatever. So you photograph that the way it is in your old house, save that. And then when you get to your new house, you can just put that back. It's what we call photo-perfect packing for a lot of, production moves. So, the production company will hire us to come in and pack and move the owner of the house out. Right. And then we will move in the staged furniture for the shoot for the movie or what have you. And then at the end of that, we'll move the stage furniture out and the original owner back. I want to know that it looks exactly like when it when they walked out, they, they want to walk back into the exact same house. They don't want to know. They don't want to feel it. They don't want to have anything to, you know, the owners 

Alice: It's seamless. Yeah. It never even happened 

Laura: That we could just do, like the books are in exactly the same order that the remote control is at the same angle on the table. Like everything is it's. 

Alice: I love it. That's so awesome. 

Laura: Trick that just regular people can do too. You know, like I kind of liked the way that China cabinet all came together. What has you, you know, like that again. So just remember to document it. 

Alice: I love that idea. That that just seems so it seems so like, duh, but I don't know anybody that really does that so that you're kind of learning new things. 

Laura: So I have my shoes and clear boxes with a photo of the shoe on them so that all my shoes have a little home. Right Sure. All my shoes are arranged by color. And I buy my shoes when I read the lease. So the high Hills, because are at the top going from dark to light and then, you know, like this with little pictures on the boxes, and then you can just take a picture of the inside of your closet so that, you know, in your new house from your closet set up just like that. 

Alice: Okay. So after this, we're going to do a tour of Laura's house, her class, because she's got the system down. I absolutely love that. I can, I live for systems cause yeah. 

Laura: I tell you why, because I hate to look for something. Yeah, me too. That's my least favorite thing to do. It's a waste of time. I don't have time to look for anything. I mean I'm busy. 

Alice: No, I agree. And I attribute it, not only to my own level of OCD but also has law firm background. You don't have an opportunity to not be organized because no attorney that I know of enjoys looking for things and waiting for things. So it's like, it needs to be instantaneous. 

Laura: That's true. I think that's bad. I didn't think of, I didn't even think of it as part of my legal background. I just thought it was my seediness, but I, but I think you're right. You're really are right. 

Alice: Because I think your personality also made you a perfect fit for that industry for the time that you were in it because you know that you need to have that level of organization and that kind of thinking in order to survive, if you were super messy, you're not going to work. 

Laura: Right. And I know that's what I also liked working about. You know, when I was working in marketing for Atari stuff, we were developing manuals. Cause at that point, nobody even knew where to buy a computer. Like there was no best part. Like we had, it opens like where will we sell these things I mean, I was like, that's not really in the industry I was there. And we had to really teach people systems on like, this is how you plug it in and this is how you, you know, really step by step. And I think step-by-step for people why it just makes people relax like, oh, there's a way to do this. I don't need to be frenetic. You know, I can just go with this little system. I can just take pictures of my stuff. It's all gonna be fine. And, and it will be, 

Alice: I love this taking, I mean, everybody has access to their, their smartphones with a camera. So this should be easy. There's no reason not to do it, except the fact that people want to skip steps. And then the stress that comes with not preparing, but not anymore. After you listened to this, you're not going to want to do that. You want to take this, this other approach, which I'm going to start implementing that myself, for sure. When you get to the other side, when you get to the new house, I know obviously you have a whole team of people that are helping you unpack, helping your clients unpack, and then getting it into the appropriate rooms. If you're not having folks do that for you on a professional level, what are some recommendations for unpacking Once you get to the other side, what are the most important rooms to take care of first?

Laura: I actually set up your beds first set up your bed. 

Laura: Set up your beds and your kids' beds first. And then also get, you know, the bathroom so that, you know, there's toilet paper and towels and soap and you know, the very basic, basic stuff in there. I would do that absolutely. First, if you can eat, you can eat cold pizza if you don't want to do you know. 

Alice: Yeah. I don't think anybody's dying to cook a meal on their first night in their house. 

Laura: You could do that or you could have, or one of our chefs come in and cook you a nice belt, but, or, or bring them in with them. But, you can, so I would absolutely do that first and for the stuff, I think what happens is there, it takes a long time to unpack and for things to find a home. Right, So my recommendation is to have what I think of as the staging area. So decide that you know what, I don't re I'm going to give up my family room or I'm going to give up my dining room and my new hall for the next two months, a room it's going to be the land of boxes in there. It's going to be the cardboard palace. And I'm going to have the movers stack, all the boxes, like all the kitchen stuff, is going to go in that corner. 

Laura: All this stuff is going to go in this corner like that, right Get that way. And then you can take each box from there, unload it and do it. Or you can put if your house is big enough, you can, and you have the room and the time you can have people stack up the boxes in a corner of each room, like these are get, have the movers, get the boxes into the room where you, they know they're going to go and then stack them in a nice little corner and pull one box out at a time. Now, if you've done the numbering system, you can look at your sheet and say, okay, I want to start with box number seven, because that was actually, the box has got all the stuff that I'm really going to need. So kitchen box number seven is the one that's got, you know, my blender in it. And I got to have my smoothie in the morning. 

Alice: I love that because I think especially in a kitchen where you probably have the most amount of boxes in the long run, right. we have to client pack up and move a couple of months ago. And I think the majority of them came out of the kitchen, but just labeling it kitchen isn't enough is not enough. So I love your system of doing an inventory of what exactly is in those boxes and even a visual with a photo, because then like you said, you can, oh, I need this stuff for my drawers. And if you just took all the organizational stuff out of your drawer and plopped it in a box, it's easy enough to pull out and then stick it into a drawer. Even if it's not perfect, at least, you know what, where it is and be able to easily find it amongst the sea of boxes that you're going to be living with. 

Laura: And plan to live with boxes. And there's some stuff like, you know, I love, I love good China. I really do. And I have quite a bit of it. but I never use it. So, or while I haven't used it in a year and a half, maybe I'll start using it again. 

Alice: I'm making myself use, I'm like, I don't care if I'm eating French fries on these, find a place I'm going to start using it. Cause what is the point of keeping it in the cabinet or in the little, you know, how genes that they come in. 

Laura: Right So that kind of stuff you don't need, you know unless you're going to really use it. You don't need to unwrap that right away. Right. You don't share. So those kinds of boxes, you might make sure that you know what those numbers are until the movers. Like you can put that on the bottom, those are the garage. Or you can put those in the living room or wherever you don't have your staging room. You can put those in the dining room for the next, you know, and I'll get to those later and you might even make another symbol or something on those boxes that show you, this is a box that's much later, you know, like you, and one thing to do with kids is really fun. Is to have the kids help you decorate the boxes like it's stickers. Yeah. You know, and you can have them like decorate their room boxes and that kind of keeps them busy. We'll also be systems where you can say, Hey, you know, mommy wants you to take this star goes on number box number four, two, and one. Right. Because those boxes maybe be the first boxes to open. So that you'll know, Hey, look for the stars. Right. 

Alice: I love that. Yeah. Anything that you could do to involve your kids, to make them feel like they're part of the process is going to benefit you in the long run too because then they actually want to participate and take advantage of it when they want it because there will come a day where they don't care. Yeah. You do it. You're like, no, you really need to be a part of this. Please tell me about, this terminology that you coined eco-luxury moving services. I just, first of all, I love the name of it and it evokes them, very, a lot of interest in me. So please explain that a little bit to them. Okay. 

Laura: Well it's eco because we're green. Right, So everything that we do is where the green reminds us that. Sure. Luxury, because we have packages like I mentioned earlier with, we literally have, Oprah dog trainer who will come and train your dog. We have vetted partners who can move your yacht from one location to another, move your plane from one location to another can move your car from one place to another different kind of goals. Like if you have a, you know, if you have a very high-end car that should not, should be traveled a certain way, we have a certain PR people we will refer you to for that luxury packages like that. We have a nanny service that will come in and take care of your kids. We have a cat hotel that will take your cats in LA and let your cats do live birdwatching. 

Laura: While there we have, we have an affiliation with a goat guy who will bring goats because people here in LA have to worry about fires right up north too. So sometimes they move into a new property and they find out, Hey, you know what The last owner didn't clear out, all this stuff far enough around the property line and goats are a great way to, to come in and get on a hillside and clean out areas. So we, we work with goat herders, that's amazing thousand gallons, you know, biodiesel tank. And I worked with goat herders. 

Alice: So, you know, it's so funny because sometimes we look at businesses in a very linear way or a very, you know, just a tunnel vision way where you don't imagine that you would be associated with all these ancillary services that benefit your clients. So you're really like concierge service for all things, lifestyle basically.

Laura: We try to be, we have like, because it's, it's really about listening to your clients because your clients are saying, Hey, I'm moving into a house with a pool. And my kids don't know how to swim yet. We have, we have, we have an affiliation with, with a company, kids swim who will come out and teach your kids how to swim in your pool and teach them how to safely get out of the pool. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't have the gates. They'll also advise you to make sure you've got all the safety equipment and everything else you need around your pool. But these are things that happen when you move. And that's why I think it's really, was really an industry that was lacking. They were just thinking it's moving boxes. 

Alice: Yeah. And honestly, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought to, I can see how all of these other services are partners for sure. But I would never think that, oh, I'm a moving company. So therefore I can bring in goats to help you clear all the overgrown visitation I can have, you know, a swim teacher come in and teach your kids. How does that even come about in a conversation that's very interesting, 

Laura: Really listening to get, it's really listening to your clients, you know, to hear what they need and thinking, can I fix that for them or thinking what w what would I need if I was moving into that house and really looking at the entire experience of what it to move, right It's, it's really setting us, our whole, our big theme is moving happiness home. We truly believe that you want to set your people up in their new homes to be happy there. Right And we, we think that starts with how we treat our team members and we've won 10 consecutive best places to work awards because we know that happy people, happy workers create a happy experience and that hopefully experiences a happy client. That's well taken care of which hopefully ripples out. And then there's a happy community. And we're very active in the community too. 

Laura: Like right now, we're, we're doing a fun, you know, a food drive annual our annual food drive is going on right now. so if you come from that place, how can I take care of people You know, how can I really solve their problems How can I bring that happiness into their heart, into their home Then these things just come out of there. They, you know, this is what they need, you know, not everybody needs it and not everybody uses these things, but the chair. And once you, as a business has shown that you can do these things, then obviously we know how to pack up your dishes, right. If we've got it this at the very least.

Alice: You know, you know that we know how to do that part. I love it. I think this is amazing. It just takes your business and your service to a whole nother level. So now let me ask you this, what kind of because I'm sure this is something that a lot of people wonder is pricing. What are we looking at numbers-wise for an average movie. and then obviously in, anytime you start adding on some of these higher luxury services, that would all just depend on what it is your needs are. 

Laura: Right. I really, I don't mean to be evasive, but I really can't answer that question because it's poorly bespoke. It depends on where you're moving from into, it depends on how many guys do you need to do it It depends on what time of year it is. It depends on, you know, how much stuff you're going to do and how much stuff you're going to have us do. So I can tell you the basics for a local move in California if that's based on the number of guys taken and the material. So that's how price, and then double drive time between the time that the truck leaves your old house to your new house, that time. And that's regulated by the government. That's how a legitimate company should charge. You can find out all that pricing with, through that great virtual estimate, right So you can get a free onsite estimate over the phone and walk us through your house. And someone will tell you exactly how much it's gonna cost and no obligation to you. And then you can decide, yeah, I want to do it, or I don't want to do it, or what you turn out. I'm going to do more packing because I don't want to pay for that, or really want you to pack because that would be worth it to me, 

Alice: That's fair because every, every house is different. Every, you know, even the contents of your home is different. You can have the same exact size home, but one person might have double the amount of furniture or double the amount of stuff or require, like you said, the packing services versus, oh, well, you know, to save some money, I might just choose to pack this stuff up myself and have you guys do the heavy lifting, which makes sense also. But again, I think people really need to be realistic about how much time it takes to do all of the all of this, because, there's just a treasure trove of things that are hiding within all those because it's in your home. When you start pulling stuff out, it's amazing. You're like how in the world did I collect all this and even for someone like myself, who was a constant purger, constantly trying to get rid of things, and there's still where, why I don't understand, where does it come from 

Laura: And the best thing about hiring somebody is they don't go through memory, down memory lane when they're going through, you know, you go through, like, I remember where I, where this story, I know it doesn't fit anymore, but oh my God, it was such a great night. Yes. And then you like Dell, you know, like, and that takes you a few minutes, right Like somebody else's just going, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, and then you can also hire, we all have affiliations with, professional organizers who will come in and help you, purge. If you're not a good purger, then they are. 

Alice: I think that is an invaluable service right there. 

Laura: Yeah, I, we hired some for, years ago to help me go through my parents, things with my parents. And it was easier for them to hear from this neutral person, like here really need this, as opposed to me saying, mom, come on. Right. Get rid of it. Cause then, you know, there's that much, you know, I love my mother, but you know, there was, there was that thing, you know So, but if it's somebody else saying 30 spatulas, maybe a little bit of overkill there.

Alice: Choose your top three right now. Yes. No, I agree. I and I happened to be that neutral third party. A lot of times in my relationships with my clients, because, I am not emotionally attached to anything. Right. Whereas in your own home, it's different. And I think with children also her mom, and dad's saying, you've outgrown this. You don't need this anymore. It's time to pass it on. If somebody else is just like having a teacher say it versus, a parent saying it's being received completely differently. 

Laura: Yeah. It really is. Yeah. I think it's, it's a really important thing to do. It's and it's, to me, it's worth all it's worth the money because you really do it. You know, you don't have to do it, you actually do it. Cause there's holding your hand and making you get it done. 

Alice: Understood. How long does a move generally take Is it, usually a one-day affair or?

Laura: Wow. That's another one. Depends. Like, are repacking everything for you. Have you lived there for 40 years Do you have a teacup collection Are you a packrat or does it turn out that one of the bedrooms is actually full with newspaper all the way to the top Or, or are you a Zen master with like, you know, you have your base, your futon and that's it? So it really varies. And that's why those virtual estimates come in so handy because we can actually get a good grip on like, you know what, let's open that closet. Let's see what's on there. Is it going to be, or you're going to be like, you know, one shirt, one bag 

Alice: Would you say is your the largest move?

Laura: Our largest move Oh my God. 

Alice: Your largest we've ever done. 

Laura: We've done an of celebrity moves and we've moved the Getty museum, some of theirs, and we've done some moves for what we moved, Jim Hanson productions, all of the animatronics, miss piggy and all of that, stuff like that. And those, you know, they took weeks, they took weeks of packing because every single thing was priceless and, had to be specially created and you know, built, you know, a crate built 

Alice: Custom solutions for all of that. 

Laura: So, so we've, and we've moved, you know, mansions like, out here there's a hummingbird nest ranch, which is a very large estate and we move things in and out of there quite frankly, because they people filmed there. so I would say, I think probably three weeks might've been the longest one. We've also had situations where things could have gone faster from our end, but there's a celebrity divorce at both A-listers and he didn't want to see I've signed a non-disclosure. So I can't tell you who it is. 

Laura: He did not want to see that she was moving out. So he had his assistant through and tell our guys just stop what they were doing, clean everything up, but close, all the cupboard doors, leave the premises so that he could walk through the room. And then when he had walked through the room, they could come back and start it all up again. Now they paid for our time to do that. And we're happy to do it that way, but we could have been in and out of their way, way faster if we were just working through. Right. 

Alice: So you had to do that with every room, every room that's so bizarre, but okay. 

Laura: You want to see she was leaving him. So with kind of sweet but, and expensive, but if that's the way we'll do it, that's, you know, we've, I can tell you lots of crazy, crazy stories about, you know, we've been, we were called at, by somebody else at like three 30 in the morning to come and move a chair, just like a regular table, like a dining room chair, not a heavy chair from one room to another room at three 30 in the morning. Right. Then when we did it for $50,000. But it's like, if you want us to do it, we use the decoy tracks so that we have if the paparazzi are hounding, somebody's rocks off in different directions. So they don't know where the celebrity is actually moving to because they don't know which truck to follow. We'll do that. 

Laura: Actually, you know, we've done that lots of times, and we've done things like we moved Benjamin Netanyahu, the head of, the former prime minister of Israel. When he came, when, when the head of state come, they bring their own security equipment and it has to be so, cause they don't want somebody walking through a metal detector. That's not in their control. Right. So they have another airplane that comes with all that stuff on it. And we load and unload all that stuff. When we had to be cleared by the Israeli circuits, secret service, and our secret service. And then we had walkie-talkies and it was like James Bond sort of a situation where, they, they wouldn't tell us where he was going until they were telling him was going there. So our guys were just had rotating crews, sitting in a truck, waiting to get the call on the walkie-talkie to go to wherever he was going to go and then unload the equipment. 

Alice: You know, if you saw this in a movie, you wouldn't even believe that this is the stuff that happens behind the scenes, but it's so interesting because you just look at it as, oh, it's a moving service, no big deal, you know, nothing exciting, but the stories you could tell you don't need to run a book or something 

Laura: We do. And I think it's partly because we really do put the, you know, we really care about our clients and we really they're taken care of. And, that's gotten us into this very lovely position of, you know, if you're an, a Lister in LA, you're going to move with us, you know, it's, you know, we joke that our client list is going to make, you know, the best Hollywood agent green with envy because you know, people come to us and we, cause we will do what they ask us to. 

Alice: Yeah, no, and I can imagine, and some of these celebrities, just not only they have multiple homes, but they're, they're moving constantly just because why not 

Laura: We're honored that they keep coming back. Right. So that's.

Alice: It goes to show, you guys are doing something right. And you're offering a service. That is something that they appreciate. You know, I think that people should really consider, you know, I was just telling my clients last week when they were moving or when they're getting an estimate from someone I'm like, listen, friends, don't work for pizza and water anymore. Pizza and beer is not, something that is appealing to anyone anymore. As you get older also like, I guess I can understand when you're in your twenties and you don't have a lot of money and everybody's helping each other out, but as you get older and, and you've got more established, homes and, children and family and, and more stuff has been accumulated. Nobody, nobody wasn't helping them move. They're all on vacation at that time. 

Laura: Right. Exactly. I can remember, you know, when I was at Berkeley, I used to be able to move everything I own in my Volkswagen bug, you know, that was like, I could pull my futon up and I could get everything in there. You know that now, now that's not the case. so I, there's only so much you can ask of your friends and when you rather have them come over and, you know, have a beer and pizza, like just sitting out, you know, in a lawn chair, you know, watching the guys do it rather than actually. 

Alice: Right, right. Yeah. That's only if you really want to keep your friends.

Laura: Don't, don't make them, don't make them do that. The other thing is just the liability. You don't want somebody to, you know, tweak their back.

Alice: Yeah. Was there anything that changed over those last year and a half, just because of everything that was happening globally that you noticed or had to implement in your business 

Laura: Oh yeah. Yeah. Very different things. one of them is, I think we can all remember where we were when government governor Newsome. He told us we were shutting down right March and, and people were frantically trying to figure out whether their business was essential or not. This would have to close. And I was going on like the county and the city and the state websites checking to make sure we were considered essential on each one. We're essential. We're essential. We're essential. Okay, great. We're essential. Now, what does that mean Right? What that meant was is everybody recalls. So that meant we had to have PPE. Right. And, at that time it was really hard to get fasts. You remember there was a shortage of math. 

Alice: Yes. Toilet paper apparently. 

Laura: And so that same era, you know, the timeframe when, when TV was at, at a premium, w I would be calling up or, you know, you know, that's basically, we all turned into PPE searching machines. Like every office, everybody was looking for PPE because we were essential. We had to stay open, but we didn't have the equipment to stay open because, you know, we had gloves, but we didn't have the right kind of gloves. We, you know, we didn't have, we had, we had mass, but they weren't the right. You know, and they weren't even anyway, we didn't have it. So one of the conversations I had is I found it and I was so excited and they said, oh, you're a hospital. And I'm like, no. And then I'm like, I'm not going to take it from a hospital. Like, no, you should give that to the hospital. 

Alice: Right. 

Laura: It was a little, you know, it was a little weird because you were in, you needed this stuff, but you didn't want to Budinski in line and have who really needed the stuff. So that, that was a very odd situation. The other thing that really happened well for us, just, we were lucky is we had in, well, my it guys in my head, I had it department of heroes. This is going to say, we weren't lucky. He was smart. He was smart. had switched us over to a VoIP system, which meant that our phones could now ring on to people's home phones. Right. So that they in the office, so that, so the customer experience was absolute, you know, they called our 800 number and it went to our client loyalty team, which most people call sales, but we call client loyalty. 

Alice: In their homes, working remotely. 

Laura: So we immediately could get everybody working remotely because our phone system allowed it, you know, we were really lucky and we already had the virtual, we don't, we weren't lucky he was smart. good job, good job. we also had, you know, the ability to do the virtual estimates, which nobody else was doing at the time. And nobody wanted, I mean, we were trying to get people to do it now. And then it was like, oh yeah. So things like that, that were things that we had in place that was, we didn't know how important they were. 

Alice: Well, this is going to set you up for an even more efficient business going forward, because you already had a lot of that stuff in place. And then you'd kind of refined it and made it even better. And so you're riding the wave of the future, so to speak. I mean, honestly, it's funny how people were so resistant to technology, but technology is really what saved us over the last year and a half, because without it, we would be very lonely and very isolated and, very lost actually. So I appreciate, and I'm grateful for technology all the time. I haven't checked the background.

Laura: So it's like, of course, I do. And, and I think that's why we were ready because I'm an easy sell on tech. Right. I'm an early adopter. I was like, yeah, give me that. Let's try it. I want to do that. You know yeah, so that, that was one of the things that were, and also just, making sure our people were safe, you know, to really make sure that the guys who were going out were safe. We had to, you know, we were buying, we also had to track down the thermometer. So we could, their temperatures hard to come by at that time. And, and we, so we staggered the way we started our business. We used to do it kind of like a big roll call where everybody would be in, in the morning, the guys, and then you, you and you are going to go out on this job and you, you and you are gonna go out on that job. 

Laura: But it said, now we had staggered start times where we can change and keep people in little groups are, are moving teams in groups and they didn't get to mix it up so much with other chambers like they did in the past, which there's a, you know, a little bit of bad in a little bit of good in there, but for, for them, okay, we'll prefer our clients because they, they, you know, they had their three or four guys that, that were here. Right. And then they had a track that was their tracks so that, you know so that we would clean it and sanitize and just things like that, that just the safety protocols that we had to put in place. And then keeping our, our client loyalty team at home. Most of them really didn't want to work from home. It was funny like they do, but then, then now they've adapted. And there are a few people that just like, I don't want to work from home. I'm coming in. So, you know, there'd be on one side, you know, way over there. So that worked.

Alice: From the homeowner's perspective or the client's perspective. When were they resistant to, well, obviously they need you guys to come in and into their homes in order to pack them and move them. But was there a lot more resistance to having any interaction or yeah? The people, were they just open or how did that work out from that perspective 

Laura: For the client experience I think what really happened there is because we had done all this safety protocol and timing and we could speak to it. Like, here are the steps we have taken, you know, everyone wears a mask, everyone gets a temperature check. Everyone, you know, has, you know, we have, in our cloistered team, we have, you know, we could speak to all of those things. Please have paper towels and soap ready so that they can watch it. Please keep your windows up and please, you know, so we would go over all of those steps in the beginning when people were just learning what we, what we had to do to stay safe. Right. So I think because we spoke to that right away, 

Alice: They felt comfortable. 

Laura: But I think that if we had not addressed it and addressed it right upfront, I would have been nervous hiring somebody to come in my house. I mean, I was hired, you know, like there I had to have a service guy come in and I was just like, who is this guy And what are you bringing with you Right. But kid's office had told me, here's what we do better. I mean, I would've made him keep his mask on of course, but I would feel better letting him have it in my house. Right. 

Alice: Yeah, no, I agree. I think education and information, and just being aware of what the steps are, you know, that you're going to be undergoing throughout the process. just understanding that really, really helps everyone in the long run. I mean, it helps your team, and then it helps your, your, your clients on the, on the, on the other end. 

Laura: Right. Right. And, and it kept coming to a minimum, you know, it kept, you know, we were thankful that you really kept people healthy. 

Alice: Yeah. Well, I think businesses like doors that we're able to pivot quickly are the ones that survived and were able to thrive. I think the ones that sat there and actually it was just overthinking things or not implementing any of the protocols or second-guessing, whatever the case may be. Those are the ones that had a harder time and will continue to have a hard time because they're not able to adapt. I know, even from a parent's perspective, my daughter goes to a private school. They were able to pivot very quickly and they were online literally the next. So we were sh they were shut down on Thursday. They were up and running on Monday. Whereas the public schools were just kind of how they were doing. They still kind of don't know. And it drives me crazy. I'm like, oh my God if I was a public school parent, I would be so upset. But, you know, I kudos to you and your team for being able to adapt so quickly. 

Laura: Be part of that as my partner too. He's an Israeli special forces guy background. So, and so I think that part, you know, that kind of, that military thinking, thinking and calm, quiet, you know, you know, I want to try to like channel the, like the raw image. It's like really calm, really boom, present, you know, the energy that keeps things going. And then living in a country like Israel, where, unfortunately, they have a lot of strife, you know, it makes you like, you don't, you don't, you don't sit back. You like spray. Yeah. So, so he sprung in, and then I, because I've got that OCD thing that we talked about earlier, I spring end, cause it's like, you got to problem solve. You got to figure it out. Right. So, so the two of us together both really did it, but you're so right. And I feel terrible for, you know, I watched a lot of friends, businesses, restaurants in particular, which, you know, they didn't want to change their menu to make it take out friendly. They didn't want to, you know, it's like, it's going to be a long time guys. 

Alice: Yeah. It was a good year of peer take, I mean, longer actually, because the restaurants are only allowed to reopen at least up here in the bay area last month. Yeah. Here too. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, four was at 15 months, take out was the name of the game. So if you're not able to offer that to your clients, you're not your customers, you're not going to survive. 

Laura: And they, and they kept saying, well, that's not what we do. It's like, well, that's what you do now, what you did yesterday. But it's what you do now. 

Alice: Yeah. Well in mass was not what we did, but guess what That's what everyone is doing. Getting vaccinated was not what we did wearing 

Laura: A mask. I was just out today. I went to the dry bar and got my hair blow-dry. Oh, that's fabulous. I went in there and they're like, they're not wearing masks. And I, and I was, and I know it's legal and I know it's okay. And I know I'm vaccinated, but yeah, 

Alice: It's weird though. Right. 

Laura: It's like, I don't know about this. 

Alice: I know what I mean. 

Laura: And then taking it off and then put it on like, come on, like make up your mind more, pick a line. 

Alice: Isn't it interesting. How, like, just from a psychological perspective, right. March hit last year, 2020, and we're told we had to wear a mask and you had to stay at home and all this stuff and all of these things. And you're like, and I remember going out wearing masks. I'm like, oh my God, it's so hard to breathe in these things. And how do you even function And then you get so used to it? Now you're at the point where, Hey, like it's, it's recommended. It's not required and you don't know what to do with yourself. 

Laura: It's so true. And I felt, I felt, I feel a little like naked, like my nose and my lips are showing like. 

Alice: Oh my gosh, well, thank you so much. This was so informative. I love all the tips she gave because I mean, for someone who has been doing a lot of this for the past two decades and some on it, even on a personal level, I learned a lot. So I am excited for other people to hear these tips and implement it themselves. Now tell me where can people find out about you and your company and how can they take advantage of your services 

Laura: Thank you. Thanks for having me. First of all, you're so easy to talk to you. I felt like motor mouth here. I just liked it. 

Alice: No, no, no. I love it. That's all, I will say just a genuine conversation. 

Laura: Yeah. I really enjoyed being here. Thank you. They can, they can find us on, northstarmoving.com and we're on Instagram. If they want to follow us there or Facebook, but, north star, movie.com and we've got, I mean, really so many tips, so many videos. We have lots of packing videos on there to teach you how to pack yourself, which we didn't really touch on. which can be very helpful, like little tricks, like people like how to pack glasses so that how to stack plates. Like most people stack plates in a box by here's the box and they stack them like this and you should actually stack them like this. 

Alice: You know what I think I saw that on your social media. I'm like, that is so smart. I'm like, why didn't I think of that Cause I've always stacked them like horizontally, but, and then in the stack this way, how you would put it into a cabinet.

Laura: Right. Really you stack it this way and then they, they, you have a lot less breakage. So there's, there's a lot of tricks on how to fold and pack. Sorry. So anyway, that's it. And northstarmoving.com all of our packing tips and happy to yeah. And how to choose mover tips and all that good stuff. 

Alice: Oh, fabulous. I love it. Thank you so much. I will put all of that information in the show notes that people can access that easily. And, definitely, this was so much fun, Laura. Thank you so much.