Is Home Staging Necessary in a HOT Real Estate Market? | Interview with Home Stager Jennie Norris

If you’re in the process of selling your home or preparing your house to sell, this season of the Behind the Renovation podcast is perfect for you.  Over the next few weeks, I am interviewing industry professionals and related businesses for the Home Selling Success series to help you understand what home selling and buying look like in 2021 and how you can prepare yourself for the good, the bad and that elusive virtue called patience. 

In today’s episode, I am interviewing Jennie Norris, Professional Home Stager based in Denver, Colorado.  Jennie is the Chairwoman of the International Association of Home Staging Professionals (IAHSP),  the world's largest home staging trade association and President & CEO of Stagedhomes.com, educating real estate agents and stagers worldwide.  Jennie also owns and operates Sensational Home Staging serving the greater Denver region.  Since 2002, she and her teams have staged over 5,800 properties for sale and over $3 Billion in real estate. From developing curriculum, mentoring colleagues, providing leadership to thousands of home staging and real estate industry professionals, Jennie is dedicated to advancing the standards of home staging and the valuable services we provide.  She is a marketing and social media guru, best-selling author, and contributor to Inman News, NAR Magazine, and RIS Media.  Jennie currently lives in Littleton, CO with her husband of 34 years, and is a mother to four grown children.

You can find Jennie on Instagram @jennienorris16 or visit her at https://www.sensationalhome.com/

Transcript

Alice: Welcome to the podcast, Jennie. Thank you so much for joining me. 

Jennie: Thank you, Alice. Good to see you.

Alice: I know it's been a while. 

Jennie: I've been keeping tabs on you. I know you've kind of branched lots of different directions and it's been fun to see your expansion. 

Alice: Thank you. Same to you. I mean, you've been killing it out there. The Denver market is it 

Jennie: Yeah. 

Alice: Well, can you tell me a little bit about what's happening in your market because I'm sure you've heard what's happening here in the bay area. You're originally from here. nothing surprises me anymore. So tell me about what's happening in your market. 

Jennie: Well, just like a lot of other parts of the country at Denver's, it's a very hot market for sellers and a very tough market for buyers. And, you know, I'm all over the country. I originally thought it was when COVID happened. And then the L L was lived the best year. 

Jennie: I thought, well, it's going to be this glut of houses coming on the market and it'll be a buyer's market. And I was really wrong. And I think a lot of other people kind of thought that might happen too. And it has just never slowed down. So there's a lack of inventory nationwide. So we definitely feel that here there are people that moved to Colorado is one of the top states people come to not the top, but, so for sellers just about anything, well sell. So that begs the question of why bothered staging. And I actually had a realtor post that on Facebook, like, you know, anything sells, staging's a waste of money. And I, I said, well, you know, I, I kindly back and I said, it's evaluated service. realtors have a fiduciary responsibility as part of NAR to get the very most in the sales stage will help you that. 

Jennie: And I put in there, I said, so if sellers tickle, anything will sell, why do they need a realtor So when realtors are hearing and thinking about that, they have to add value to what they're doing is staging is one of those services they can include that helps sell our net more than if they just slapped it on the market. You're going to get even more money. In fact, there's a stage, I think they're in Santa Cruz. And, they said that they bought a house and all they did was stage it. And they put it back on the market, like, you know, not even a month later and they got 110,000 more. 

Alice: Oh my gosh, that is just so crazy to me.

Jennie: I know it's nuts. And so staging the presentation really, really matter. So we're, you know, buyers are having a tough time, just like everywhere else, you know, being able to compete for these properties and having a bridge, the appraisal gap. 

Jennie: And I, I'm glad I'm not a buyer right now. We've we bought a house and we closed in, in August. So I'm thankful that we were able to, and that was even ended up, we got, it was very competitive, but we didn't have to come that to bridge the gap a little bit. We didn't, we didn't have, you know, 20 offers. And I mean, it's just crazy. 

Alice: I know you get so much noise from people on all sides, right Oh my gosh. You know, be careful the housing market is going to just plumb it and everything is just going to, you know, and so your own expletive there. I haven't seen that. And you didn't see that in your market either. So let me ask you, because you're in the business of home staging, you're helping people market and sell their properties and your business. 

Alice: Did it come to a halt because of the pandemic or how has that changed over

Jennie: So we were done about 40, 40%, I would say year over year, 2019 to 20. So 20, we did take a hit, but we never stopped. And I told the team, cause we were still considered an essential service. They didn't, they actually didn't like name home staging. We just sort of flew under the radar. And I said, if we get pulled over in our truck, I said, just tell him you're moving is moving as an essential service. So, you know, our volume definitely went down because people were reluctant to go into properties and so forth. So I'd say for a good, you know, three or four months, it, it hampered us. But then we picked right back up again, and this year's just been crazy. It's you know, we're, we're maxing out, we're doing probably 12, 13 stagings a week. 

Jennie: We have pickups. I mean, it's just nothing sitting for more than a month, which is what happened last year too. But, this year, it's really unexpected. If something goes longer, those would be the higher-priced properties. Or I have one right now that's actually a duplex and it hasn't, it was staged a month ago. It hasn't gone under contract yet. So there are still some properties that may sit longer, but for the most part, it's, you know, we're, we're cranking. 

Alice: So how do you work mostly in a city area or are you more in the suburban area?

Jennie: We go all over. So I'm staging. So it's sort of funny cause you know, the bay area, you know, you could take an hour to drive from San Francisco down to San Jose or longer depending.  So here, when we moved here, it's sort of funny. It's like, nobody wants to go more than 15 minutes. They feel like it's really far. And I even asked like when we first moved here at first Colorado spring. So just so people watching it's, it's about two and a half, maybe three hours, depending on where you start from. And so I literally had somebody say to me, that's, that's really far away. You're, you're probably gonna want to spend the night because that's like a day trip. 

Jennie: Cause I didn't know, I didn't map it out. And I said, so it's just sort of funny the mentality or people don't want to go beyond a certain zone. We, we go everywhere. So we go, we go into the foothills. We go, we just did a new stage of the house that was 34 acres, you know, farmland. And so, and we just staged one that's was way up in the Hills and golden, which is, you know, where the beer manufacturing is, but they have a way in the foothills area. So we go all over the place. We do a lot of downtown condos and high rises and then a lot of residential. So we get the whole mix. 

Alice: So in staging some of these condos versus single-family homes in your more suburban areas, did you notice any trends changing you you're in your home,

Alice: you're stuck in there. People are, are desiring more space. So are you finding that condos were having a harder time selling and, but then people are looking for the bigger spaces, the larger, single-family homes? What was your experience over the last year?

Jennie: What was interesting is that people are not relegated to having to be in a corporate office. You're going to see people are buying where they want to, we're going to look out my window. And so rather than looking at concrete, a lot of people are saying, I want to go to Breckenridge or Aspen or it's called summit county, the mountain areas and they can work from there. And so, so a lot of people are leaving the residential and even the urban areas and they're going into the mountain areas because they want to be able to hike and do different things. 

Jennie: Downtown would have been staging a lot of really tiny properties. So those are like 400 square feet, 500 square feet. So those are challenges anyway for people to visualize. But those are ones that aren't necessarily going to fly off the shelf because there, it's hard for a buyer to imagine, how do I arrange my stuff in here So I've done more small properties this year than I've ever done before. I probably have done more small properties that small teeny square foot is 700 square feet or less this year than I have my whole career. Yeah. So I don't know if the word is out that our company can handle that or is willing to stage those little teeny properties. And then we've been, we've done, you know, massive properties as well. So I think you're right, that people are looking for, just a change of scenery and, and then, and then a lot of people looking at well, do I really need all this space if they're downsizing and then they're, they're specifically looking for where, what do I want to look at out my window And so I think, you know, a lot of the companies we actually had, one of these big corporate offices, they, they put all this money into building downtown Denver and they're not going to move in. They're just going to let it go. 

Alice: That's very interesting. But all the more reason that doing the best that you can to help people visualize and want to live in a space, even if you're trying to move elsewhere, you want to make a desirable for somebody else to move into your existing space. Right So regardless of the size, I can't even imagine living in 400 square feet is so small, but you know, we go, we all have to start somewhere and there's a different lifestyle for different people. 

Jennie: And I think the when people are looking at updating, cause I think you're right with the pandemic people who are a second home, they're looking at the walls. Like we should paint. Well, I'm sick of looking at whatever they want us to make changes. And so all the tradespeople are just slammed and people are updating and yeah. And so the key is when people, you know, they'll sometimes ask us, well, what do you recommend?

Jennie: So I'll usually ask, how long do you plan on staying here And if it's five years or less, and I'm going to pick things that I feel are on-trend for buyers specifically, what I see is coming so that I'm not going to be coming back in five years, telling you, now you have to change all these fixtures and surfaces and paint colors because they're not what a buyer wants, but if it's like my forever home and you know, people want to put some crazy colors in or do whatever, you know, they're, they're making up making decisions and I've seen some really cool. And it'd be interesting to see what you're doing, where you are versus here because I know a lot of the design trade, trends start in California. And then they had, they had east versus fashion. They say he starts and eats and heads west. 

Jennie: So, we're starting to see a lot more like art deco tile, but for example, gold fixtures, you guys had gold fixtures for like two years before I even saw one here and I saw it and I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to invest in any bold step because I don't know if it's going to stand the test of time. And so, but it took a long time. I finally saw one gold faucet and rose gold really didn't take, take hold, but gold, you know, handles and fixtures. Those things have finally come here. yeah. So there, you know, they, they do, we are on a trend where we're a little bit behind.

Alice: Okay. Well, it's always, you know, it's all subjective, right Because when the gold started coming back on the scene or came on the scene again, and it's a, it's an update from the traditional brass and everybody's like, oh my gosh, you know, I hate it brass. 

Alice: I'm not, I, I'm not doing that. And all of a sudden, you know, the more you see it, the more, all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's not so bad. And it is very, very nice depending on the application and in the type of home that you're in. Right. And there's, there's good gold, and then there's not so good gold. It really depends on who you're purchasing from and how you're, putting the entire, overall look together. Right. So have you noticed anything or any, or are you changing the way you're staging certain properties now because we were so into this open floor plan and then all of a sudden because we're doing so many things under one roof, right? You know, you have people that are working, and you know, it could be, both parents are working and then you have your children doing distance learning, and then everybody is in this open floor plan. 

Alice: It's not so productive. are you starting to see people or are you helping people visualize a different way of living in their homes now versus how it was maybe pre-pandemic 

Jennie: Yeah. I think offices are a big one. If a house doesn't have a dedicated Ben or an officer or a bedroom that can be used as an office, we're having to come up with a way to create that space in an area of the home. And you're right. We just staged an occupied home where they had a really big size family room. So they had their sitting area to watch TV and then they had a whole section that was the classroom. and so they had desks and, you know, things for the kids. And so, and the parents each had offices in there, in bedrooms. So, but I think there is, that is definitely a consideration for sure. 

Jennie: And, kids schooling from home. I chose to homeschool my kids. So I know a lot of people thought I was nuts, but you know, people that have been thrown into that, I did that for five years. Yeah. The four of them. And, I enjoyed it. It was, you know, flexible and so forth. I know a lot of parents were sort of thrust on them. Plus they're working. That's very challenging. So, kids either have like a, you know, a computer area and, an area of the room, if there's like a law office, something like that, we can create like a zone for the kids. I think that's important. So I, and I don't know that that's going to necessarily go away. but I think that big open floor plan is still seen people knocking out walls and doing the big open. 

Jennie: However, there has to be some compartmentalizing of the spaces for work workspace and school space.

Alice: Right. Yes. I had to do that for a client where all of a sudden you have three children under the age of 10 having to do school from home. And then, you know, you're still working and how do you keep these kids who are interrupting you the whole day and while they can have a dedicated area where they can focus also, which is another challenge, right Keeping these kids focused. and I think even after they start going back in, a lot of people have started going back on campus. You still need a dedicated space to do homework. I'm not a big fan of, you know, lay on your bed and doing your homework. Cause that's not the most productive, Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, but to create these systems really helps people kind of, you know, stay motivated. 

Alice: Now in terms of right now, we talked about a little bit that, you know, it's a hot market. You don't necessarily have to do a whole lot, but what do you advise your clients to do when they're getting their houses ready to sell that Well, if an occupied house they need to, of course, be depersonalized. So kind of the, you know, clean, declutter, clean clutter-free color. So they want to clean their house and I've learned over the years, I'm sure you have to clean is a relative term, not the truth. 

Jennie: Yeah. And I walked into my house. I'm like, oh my God, how can they live like this And then others houses clean, right So clean house tells a buyer your, how you cared for your home. And nobody wants to walk into, you know, messy beds and dirty surfaces and so forth. I don't care how hot the market is. 

Jennie: That's a turnoff, be personalizing because my thing is, nobody should know who you are, what you do for living background, race, faith, family, status education because those are all potential triggers for a buyer, but it's, so I tell the sellers to do that and then, add or remove color as we recommend. So they may have to paint. I mean, we might have to bring some color and I call it a color infusion. So a lot of sellers have furniture, but they've never really, you know, pulled their house together. Or when they take all their family pictures off the wall or weird, you know, other things that are something, a buyer doesn't want to see some weird sculpture to macrame thing or tapestry or something and the artwork. And so we often will bring that in to create, a cohesive experience for the buyer and make it feel more updated. 

Jennie: So, so those are typical things we're going to recommend to the seller and depending on their timeframe, you know, it might include replacing fixtures or are they going to replace countertops with the, you know, do a backsplash. It was so a lot of homeowners are making improvements that they get the very most from the buyer's offers. And so I, you know, I, anything that they're willing to do upfront, I certainly don't advise us through your house in the market and, you know, yeah. It might, so you could have sold it for more and, and especially when people are buying and the same type of market or worse, maybe they're going through a state where it's even more crazy and the prices of houses are more than where they're coming from. You have to get every penny out of the sale. 

Alice: Absolutely. I can't imagine just leaving money on the table. 

Alice: It doesn't make any sense to me when, I mean, I'm sure you've seen it. I would walk open houses just because I'm curious to see what people are doing. And I remember a property I worked on a couple of years ago where we helped them update the home. It needed it. And it was a very small budget, but we did the most we could out of that budget or within that budget. Then I walked around when we actually had open houses. I think we're starting to see open houses, come back again. Right. but walked to another property that was in the same neighborhood, not a single thing. And even I even made a comment because I can't help myself. I'm like, you guys didn't want to clean up before you put her on the market. And they're like, this is clean. I'm like, according to who, I mean, seriously cobwebs. 

Alice: And then they were moving boxes, just stacked up in the room. Like they were just showing the bones of the house and it needed a lot of work. Let's not kid around, I needed a lot of work and it probably wasn't worth it to do a complete renovation, but you could still put forth the effort to make sure that it shows well so that you can get if we can sell ours and not everybody only one, a person's going to get the house that we worked on. You're going to get your, our overflow over to your property, but they would never pay the same amount they did for that house. That looked amazing. But, your house that looks like it's work, it's a dropper. It's literally a fixer-upper.

Jennie: So I think it's between when people do that, it's very short-sighted and others. I know there are times at different circumstances that people just have to get out. 

Jennie: They don't have time to put anything towards it, but you know, we're talking for a few thousand dollars painting, cleaning, maybe doing a couple of fixture updates, a little bit more money, you know, replacing the carpeting, I think, or maybe changing the flooring and the countertops. I mean, it's just with it. Doesn't take a whole lot to make an impact. And I wonder how much the backlog of the trade. So like, even if somebody wanted to replace appliances, you can't find them. It's where we are. They're, you know, they're, you're out weeks trying to get them unless they're four models or something. So that's, that's been a challenge too. And I'm not sure if you're experienced at where you are, where yeah. Even getting the materials is tough. 

Alice: This last year has tested my patients on a whole nother level. It's really almost walking in and going, what is available.

Alice: What can I get right now Because ordering things. And then they say, oh, you'll get it in two weeks. And then in two weeks, they're like, well, we're pushed out. We're delayed for a month or two months. And sometimes it's even six months, or God knows when. And people don't have that kind of Hemet, especially when you're selling a property. and even when you're first moving into our property, we're so used to instant gratification, that the idea, the concept of waiting, it's just so foreign to us. Now, when you're on a tight timeline, not being able to access what you need when you need it is, is really, really tough. 

Jennie: It's even, you know, so people that are listening if they're thinking of selling and they know they need, they need to do things like update a flooring, or they, maybe they want to put new cabinets in or something. 

Jennie: Those are anywhere from like two to four months out to get, to even get them ordered and get them delivered. And so you do have to plan ahead otherwise, you'll be stuck with whatever the manufacturer, whatever store you go to, you may have on hand. So it, it, it is going to require people to plan in advance. For sure. 

Alice: Yes, being proactive is very important during this time, because it's not like it used to be. You can't just go to the store, grab what you need, bring it home and install it. So if you're even considering selling, if you're even thinking of it now is the time to start. I mean, two months ago, it was the time to start placing the orders and figuring out what you want to do and doing it because like you said, the trades are not readily available. Anybody worth their salt is booked out well in advance. so have you actually have somebody that's available, you might want to think twice about that. And that's just being honest. 

Alice: And then the materials, you know, you just have to work with what's available. And there are definitely things that, you know, if you're not able to completely renovate a property and get brand new materials, what are some tips you have for people like quick fixes that don't necessarily require a lot of material but give you a big bang for your buck.

Jennie: I think fixtures like the lighting, a lot of people have, you know, dated, dated like pictures and for, you know, anywhere from a hundred to $200, you can get a nice-looking picture. It could go over the dining room, table, kitchen, table, even in the entryway. So I think that that speaks a lot. I've had sellers who we can sell our house. They put an ugly dated fixture in their entry when like we can just swap out your fixtures and you change that one thing. 

Jennie: And all of a sudden they get an offer and it's because buyers don't have the vision or they don't want to have to deal with it. So I think fixtures painting, of course, is not expensive to do. And at the very least definitely cut up your paint. So here in our, when we moved here with, they have a lot of wood tramp. So, versus where, you know, west coast, a lot of it is white, white door casings, white casings around the windows, white baseboards, but here they have wood. So like dark rose, it took me a long time to get used to it. And even some of their builders or new builds are putting the darker wood in. So that's just a kind of a, maybe a thing for Colorado that, you know, if you have things that need to be touched up the condition of your home, you know, you want to make it look as nice as possible. 

Jennie: So, you know, clean your carpets, touch up the paint, replace fixtures, even faucets, those are not expensive to do so, anything like that, that pure data, you know, your door handle on the front door, paint your door. So there's a lot of things they can do. Doesn't take a lot of time and just takes some sweat equities with some effort to do that. And, and I think that's a big bang for the buck. So, it, depending on the budget, you know, if you have $5,000 or 15, and, and speaking about that, there's a lot of real estate companies now who are covering a lot of the improvements sellers need to make, before they list. And they're partnering in that. And so, you know, we saw this with the company, zoom Costa that started doing this with, with stagers partnering with us, and he would cover anything, windows, roofing, flooring, fixtures, anything they would pay for that upfront, and then they would get a piece at the end. 

Jennie: It was great cause none of the trades had to wait for their money. Well now, and they're still doing another big investment group, I believe. And so they're out of, I think Northern Cal Southern Cal and Santa Barbara is where their two owners are located, but there's a lot of real estate companies now that are doing that. So they have a budget to allocate towards every listing. And, and I'm thinking to myself, you know, how can they afford that How can they afford to put, you know, this type of money and they're not taking a piece at the end. So I'm thinking like, well, you know, my mom always says follow the money. So I'm like, somebody's got to be making money somewhere. So it's either the volume of listings that they're gaining or on the loan side, maybe they're doing something. But I think that's very smart. 

Jennie: It also adds value to the real estate side because I believe the number one reason why people don't do things before the listing is they don't have the cash and they don't want to pull stuff out of the house. They don't want us to load up credit cards cause then they're, you know, trying to get along. So it's that, that cash. And, tell me what you think the average budget to do a basic, you know, prosthetic overhaul, 10 to 20,000 carpeting, maybe kitchen counters. We're not talking maybe bathrooms. So you know, the 30 grand or less, and you can make a nice impact on your home. And the goal is, well, how much will that net me on the purchase end So I think at least two to three X. 

Alice: Oh, easily, easily when you were talking about the wood trim. So yes, absolutely. Here in this market, white trim is the go-to and I would find that that would be very challenging. 

Alice: I'm just trying to envision myself going there and going, y'all need to paint everything. Don't keep it like this. So what is it that you guys did you just keep the wood because that is something that is very valuable to the folks in that area or would you recommend them to.

Jennie: It depends. I think it depends on the property, so I just I'm working with a client, so they sold, so they want to update the property that they bought and it's all, Sherry. So it's not like dark cherry sort of more of, a warmer cherry, but it's the door casings. It's hand-carved, I mean, it's around all the windows and I'm just like, oh my God, there's just so much wood in here. So in that case, you know, people like, I wouldn't necessarily paint out all of that, but I'm thinking like, maybe you could really just paint out around the windows. 

Jennie: So it's not just so like Woodward wood everywhere. So I think if it's, if it's cheap, like some of it's only like this big, the bender, the baseboard is only like a time, like rip them off and put regular baseboard on it, just like khaki. And then, so it depends on the property. So I have been recommending painting, a lot of, kind of Oak here. It's almost like in the brass of everything, you know, brass was the eighties in California. So here it was like the nineties, two thousand. So it's almost like the builders and stuff were like, we're done here, let's send it to Colorado. And they put it on a home house here.

Alice: That's what they did in Texas, too. The same guy, like whatever we didn't need anymore, they shipped it off to another state. And then it was like the thing over there. 

Jennie: And then when that gold came back and spent the last, you know, 15 years, tell me a little deep breath, your house. And you're just going to this gold marching back. And I was like, Ooh. But, so that the trends, you know, there's a ton of Oak. How is this here And so I'm like, even high-end houses, I'm like, oh my God, they had like a big Oaks around big build boats and their, their own fireplace in their family room, like painting. It's going to look amazing. And the stairwells with the Opanas there's paint it, you know, you could do, you could do Anthony on the thing you can do painting will make a huge difference. And it's just, it's hard to convince people sometimes because they think there's this big value in unpainted wood and then like an ugly Oak door, you know, that's dated. 

Jennie: No, that's not, if that's not a value to a buyer, they want to see the new newer look and that's the weight. So yeah. It's been taken a lot of convincing here. Yeah, I can imagine. So do you notice a lot of people in your state moving out of state or do you notice a lot of transplants from other areas coming in There's both? So I think there's a lot of people from Minnesota that come here cause it's probably so darn cold there. And we, you know, we get the four seasons here, which is nice, which we, you know, didn't get where we used to live, but there are, there a lot of people that are coming in with cash purchasing. So when I'll say, where are you coming from So there was one-point, east coast money coming in and there were these kids' first starter, home million dollars downtown in Denver. 

Jennie: And I thought, wow, I'm sorry to house this little, two-bedroom, two-bath little thing in Walnut Creek. I didn't have a million dollars, I guess, nice parents, you know So it depends on, you know, what they're looking for in Colorado was affordable, you know, four or five years ago. And then now I would say the median it's still affordable compared to other markets, but it's the median price is probably close to 400 where a few years ago it was in the twos to three. So, it's, it's quickly becoming a place where younger buyers, the millennials, and then even my kids, our son bought a house. And then I have three more that, you know, they're going to want to buy, they're quickly going to get priced out of the market because your, your income for loans and so forth. I mean, luckily the interest rates have remained low. 

Jennie: That's the saving grace. If those start going up, nobody's gonna be able to afford to buy anything. And, so we're encouraging you to get into something now because real estate is still a really solid investment. And I keep waiting for the shoe to drop to like, you know, okay, it's, it's been a hot market. When is it going to churn When is it going to turn Because when is it going to normalize And they're predicting another year of this, and then they're saying it should hopefully normalize, but it's all about supply and demand? And we have a, when we first moved here, there was no new construction going on. There really were no new builds. And so now there's just a ton of activity, with water, with a lot of builders here. So there's a subdivision going in at 12,000 homes going in, not too far from where we are. And so then that begs the question infrastructure, where's the water gonna come from and right. 

Alice: Low state, like the rest of us.

Jennie: Right. Right. Exactly. So what are your yards Every has rocks? Nobody has to read. 

Alice: What, what is, what is a major industry in your area Because you know, here in Silicon Valley, I mean, we know it's a technology and all of that. And so because of that, we are kind of in our own little bubble, as much as everybody keeps saying that, oh, you know, the bubble's going to burst. And I've been hearing that for the last two decades. But we're still going strong. There was that little blip for a little while there, but that was kind of nationwide. And that was a whole nother, reason for it. But in general, our pricing continues to rise. I don't see an end to it really. I mean, it might level off at some point a little bit here and there for a minute, and then it'll keep going up again. 

Jennie: I think it'll depend on the economy. The economy is pretty strong. So the number one industry, one of the big ones of course is marijuana. And I think a lot of people came here for that. I mean, it's, it's a billion-dollar industry. It's huge. And I remember driving because when I was in, fellas Verdi's, we would hit skunk. People would kill a skunk and you'd smell that skunk smell. So riding around here and be like, there's somebody kill us cook. And that's the smell of the growing grow houses. And so you could just be driving around on the freeway and you get this big whiff of something. Cause there are the big warehouses full of grow houses or they're, you know, the trimming and so forth. And, and in fact, as a stager, I could not compete for warehouse space with the bros cause they make so much money. 

Jennie: So I had to go into the outskirts to try to find a space that was more affordable, for what we needed to do for our warehouse. Plus I didn't want to be adjacent to something cause that smell would glom on. So that is a big industry. of course, we have tech, you know, there's the Denver tech center. So we have a lot of tech companies that are here and there's a lot of companies that are headquartered here. There's a lot of restaurants that are headquartered here. Like red Robin, Chipotle used to be headquartered here. Noodles and company are headquartered here. Boulder is a big, big influx. They have Oracle and then they have a lot of tech in Boulder as well. Amazon has facilities everywhere. So it's a, it's a big mix. I mean there's so I would say tech is a big one, which people probably surprises people. 

Jennie: And and then, you know, the industry itself, we're the number one state in the country for breweries for little microbreweries. So there's a lot of, yeah. So there's a lot of that. yeah, so it's a, it's an interesting state, you know, there's, there's a, there's a mix of everything. So have you had any, since marijuana is such a big industry where you are, did you, have you had any run-ins with that in residential properties Yeah? Cause you can actually have Colorado allows you to have as an adult up to six, six plants per adult. So if there are two adults in the house, you can have six, 12 plants that you could grow. And so people are either going to grow them outside or in a grow room. And then, and of course, there was the DEA. There's also been a lot of illegal stuff coming in. 

Jennie: You've been a big gun. You know, people took over these really beautiful homes and were growing illegally from, you know, partners and so forth and we've shut those down. But, yeah, if you see a, you know, a grow room, the advice is staging is like, well, you know, not, everyone's going to want to appreciate what is here, even the paraphernalia, you still have to put it all away. So I treat it just like anything else that a buyer probably doesn't want to see, it's a personal preference, not everybody here, you know, smokes. And I mean, that used to be the big thing for 20, which was April 20th, which started in my husband knows all this because his, yes, he's so knowledgeable about that. the aspect of growing up in Northern California, but it was from kids. and high school at four 20 every day would get together and I guess smoke pot. 

Jennie: And so that's when people say, are you four 20 friendly That's where it originated. And it was from a Northern California city. This is where it came from. And so April 20th, every year, it used to be this huge thing in Colorado that people would smoke marijuana openly. There'd be like the big cloud of smoke over the state. And so since it became legal, there wasn't even a thing this year. It wasn't a, it wasn't a big deal. So it's sort of been accepted, you know, there's, you know, pros and cons to what med medicinal versus rec. But, you know, you can't have all that paraphernalia out cause there are still people that have, you know, they don't want to see that it's just like cigarette butts or something like, you know, you want to make sure everything's cleaned up and it does have an aroma. 

Jennie: And so I know, I know what that is like. Well, I'll tell you a funny story. When I was, when I lived in California and I was staging a Sacramento, my husband did have a listing and a very nice house in Roseville. And people traveled with these corporate executives. And so their house, we did, it was a mixed media. So they had some stuff, we brought some stuff in. And so they had this cat that was, you know, so they weren't home when I stayed and this cat kept hissing at me like swiping. And I'm like, what's your problem And you know, I love cats and aging and I go to the family over and they had some stuff on a table. And so it's ceramic and I'm like, oh, this is kind of nice. So I arranged it and I put like a candle and a plan and a little a runner. 

Jennie: And then Don thought it was my husband's listing. Cause he comes in and he started looking around and he gets to the family room and he starts cracking up. And I said, what's the matter he goes, don't you know what that stuff is I said, no. I said, well stuff, the homeowner had out. I, I kinda liked it. It was ceramic. It had some colors. I thought I would use it. And he goes, you honestly don't know what that is because I did not grow up at any knowledge of anything. And I said, no, when he goes up the marijuana pipe in a bowl and I was like, oh, the next shot I had staged it really beautifully on the table. So, and so now I know what a blog looks like. And I know with some of this paraphernalia that, you know, not everybody does. 

Jennie: And, but that was sort of funny. So it has become more accepted, but you still don't want to have all that stuff out. Yeah. You're going to have to do a tutorial on how to stage with 20 friendly stagings.

Alice: That's hilarious. So in your state, it's not, it doesn't hurt the listing in any way it's, it's kind of accepted or how does that work.

Jennie: Yeah. I think that people still have to be mindful of that. That's a personal thing that you want to put away. And so I haven't run into a thing where they have a bunch of plants in the background backyard, and there's only a certain time that those grow anyway. But you know, I wouldn't, if I came across a plant and had a bunch of paraphernalia, I'm like, you've got to put all this stuff away. You cannot leave this out for showings because that could be a turnoff to buyers. So I think, are you treated just like any other sensitive thing where there's, you know, weapons or jewelry or things like that, you tell people to put those away so that, you know, it's a feeling to every, every buyer. Right 

Alice: Wow. So you learn new things. I, I often wonder because we're so engrossed in our own geographic area that we don't know what's happening elsewhere. You kind of have a general idea, but really, unless you're living there, you don't really have a true appreciation. Thank you so much for sharing all this information with us. One last question for you and I'm sure you have plenty, but what would you say is the craziest story or craziest thing that's happened to you over this past year?

Jennie: Past year the craziest thing there's been a lot, 

Jennie: Staging-wise. I mean, I mean just the typical stuff, you know, staging and, and, getting stuck with the truck and the snow. That's something we never dealt with in California. So you're up the hill. We had a house where they were told ahead of time like you need to dis your driveway. You need to make sure it's clear so that we can get this big truck up there. And they had in the truck, got stuck in the ice and almost went off and then it almost, it almost went sideways and almost, yeah. And that's kinda like the stressful stuff. And so, you know, expanding into a warehouse. So we did that. I was a year ago in like May, June, and then I expanded, I went even bigger. So just that whole piece of it, that would, that side of the district is a little nutty, you know, managing all of that. 

Jennie: And, but you know, we've, we've staged a bunch of different types of properties we had. Well, just, you know, one where there was a homeless person that evidently had gotten in the house before we got there, which was good. So they're just, you never know what you're going to encounter as a stager, interesting clients. Some are really appreciative of what we do. Others are like, I don't like that picture. And my thing is like, that's okay. It's not for you. You're not buying the house and the barns are gonna love it. You know 

Jennie: And if you really love something that much in this, as you can take it with you too, I know, I know it's funny because Kevin Tane, who I know, you know, he has a, he has more crazy stories than that. Then I think any stager that I've heard of, he just had one where he went into preview a house and he thought it was vacant. And he said he unlocked the door. And this naked lady came walking out a little older woman. She was new to, she came out and she, instead of stopping and putting clothes and she came towards him and she goes, well, let me, let me turn the, wherever she was going to go. And he was like, please go put some clothes on. And I think I would probably be like, you know, if I, something like that happened to me, I'd be like, you know, I'll be looking back at other time, you know 

Jennie: Just because, you know, it's a people and people are, people have, you know, I've seen some strange things in houses, you know, artwork. That's like, pornographic, you know, of stuff like it's personal preference, but then you have to do a whole thing of why they can't leave it out because they really like it. And so you have all those, we've actually the secret Facebook group that we take pictures of those things. We put them on a group it's called precious treasures, the tragic collection of things we find in clients' homes. And, and you know, just interesting stuff here. There's a lot of like, you know, carved bears and a lot of Southwest it's almost like in the eighties of Southwest people came strolling through Denver and sold every patina doll, every tapestry, every piece of art, every, you know, rug area rug that was Southwest motif and the people poured it into their houses. 

Jennie: And so their house is just, it's a Southwest theme. Well, that's not really on-trend. I mean, a couple of things is okay, but not whole, you know, thing. And so I see that a lot and I didn't see that a lot in California. So it's interesting how certain areas will take on, certain characteristics or you'll see a type of Dick decorating things that people put in their homes. And I'm like, got another house. People just dump all the Southwest stuff in and it's not even nice Southwest stuff. It's just crappy Southwest F it's like the tacky stuff you might find on the road. And I apologize to my clients that are watching. I love your houses. I love working on well, we're just trying to be honest and we're trying to heal. 

Jennie: You don't want to live in like some Don hoe special all day. And people take their sports here very seriously. I mean, Broncos and so orange rooms. And so I just staged a house for a client. He loved the Raiders. I said you cannot leave any of this stuff. And he goes, why I said because people here are Raider haters. And I said I don't have a problem. The Oakland Raiders, I come from the bay area. I said, but you can't have any of that out. And so it's just sort of funny because that's not necessarily true in every market where you could have a different team that there it's just, it's, it's the dynamic here. And that's, I think is a stager learning, what the buyers want, what the, what the, you know, general population within the expect to see and things like that, that, you know, could be a potential issue for buyers, you know, in a normal market, maybe not, it's kind of market, you know, then you just, you advise them properly. 

Jennie: And so it's just, it's a learning experience for sure.

Alice: That absolutely is. And funny, you should say the Raiders because I've been doing a lot of work in Vegas this year for a client and, you know, Raiders move to Vegas. So when I see the Las Vegas Raiders, I'm like, this is so strange. Like how do you go from being the Raiders in Oakland for so long, for as long as I can remember? And then all of a sudden, a year you're somewhere else.

Jennie: But they were in LA when I got out of high school and went to college, they were in LA and we were at my friend's sister's. And I was asked to be Raiderettes you're lucky because they were brand new to LA. At that time, it was like 1983. And so there were, you know, you could be a Raiderette cheerleader and I'm like, well, I'm going to UCLA. 

Jennie: And I don't, I want to be able to focus on my studies, but it was just weird. And then they moved back to Oakland. So they moved around a lot. I just, can't get used to the Las Vegas Raiders either. That sounds weird to me, but it is very weird. I'm sure Vegas is happy to have a professional team thereafter they're happy. 

Alice: Yeah. So in the market, there is booming as well as, you know, a lot of places are. so it'll be interesting to see how things play out over the next, you know, year or so post-pandemic and things kind of figuring itself out. It should be very, very interesting, but thank you so much for what's happening in your world. It's very exciting. And, I think people will get lots of great tips from this, because if nothing else, no matter where you are, it's always best to do something than nothing.

Jennie: I'll give a plaque to work with me for, you know, because they know how to, they know what to tell you, how to properly advise you to sell. 

Jennie: So if there are sellers that are listening work with a professional stager, and if you're thinking of getting into staging, look out the stage. com course, because it's the only one that issues the accredit agent to the student. And then we're doing our conference here in Denver, in the fall. So that's our international association of home staging professionals conference and expo to the end of September 24th to the 26th. And it's open to anybody you want to come. We've got some fantastic speakers, you know, great keynotes and other educations. So for real estate agents for stagers, anybody who's interested check it out. Awesome. And where can they find you online align? I, Jenny Norris, so on Facebook, Twitter, and so forth. So Jenny Norris is my Facebook obvious my name there and, staged homes.com. You'd go to that website. You'll find me there. 

Jennie: And then IAHSP.com. And also you can find my information there as well. And our company here is sensational home staging, but our domain is sensationalhome.com. 

Alice: Fantastic. And just a little fun fact for you. I was, I redid my garage last year and I had boxes that I needed to purge and I opened up a box that had my original stage tone binder and I have a convention, I think the first two. And so it was an interesting trip down memory lane, just looking at time caps. It's, it's a trip, you know, we go way back. So this is pre-digital cameras, pre-online, everything. So like all my stuff was printed photographs that were in my binders to show to the clients. And so, you know, doing business in 2021 is a lot easier. That's for sure. But it was really cool to look back, to see where we started and where.

Jennie: I think was social media didn't even exist in 2008. 

Jennie: I'd been in business six years by then. And you know, it was, yeah, you're right. Developing the pictures and having, and then, you know, the one-hour development and having to put them in a binder. And it was just, yes, those people watching. It's like we had to walk two miles from the snow each way and it gets.

Alice: I need to educate people about what home staging is. You have no idea. 

Jennie: I know it's crazy.

Alice: All right. Well, thank you so much, Jenny. Have a great day. 

Jennie: Thanks. Thanks for having me, Alice.